Debunking the decisive moment

[Sparrow]

I fancy Henri spins once in his grave each time the phrase is used ...




... Muttering "capture-instantanée"

 

[RichC]

I fancy Henri spins once in his grave each time the phrase is used ...

... Muttering "capture-instantanée"

He's probably already dizzy from spinning because of photographers purporting to capture his instant but not getting the bit about the key moment of a narrative as well as the confluence of form.

This moment is Diderot's "instant", Lessing's "pregnant moment", the peripeteia...

 

[Chris101]

HCB was wealthy. He churned through film with the capacity for many, many decisive moments.

So? We've got digital now, and even the poor slob who can only afford a p&s digicam can "churn through" pics like a boss.

 

[Georgiy Romanov]

I learned the "decisive moment" lesson from watching one of the "Pro Photographer/ Cheap Camera" setups on DigitalRev (this one) where Vincent Laforet has what looks to me very much like HCB's approach. He sees a potential photo and waits until reality gets close enough to his idea. Then he takes the photo - or more than one photo. It's the "decisive moment" when everything comes into place.

That's actually quite different from "take a lot of photos." Though with something like a crowd of boys running around it makes sense to take a number of photos.

HCB had a particular approach, shared by Laforet, to structure within the photograph - geometry, shading - played off against human involvement.

The pigeon shot in the linked video (just after 5:00) would not have occurred with a "take a lot of photos" approach. The camera would have been pointing somewhere else at the "decisive moment." At about 6:30-7:00 Laforet references HCB and contact sheets.

It's not "one shot" but it's also not "spray and pray."

I think this is the reason why Bresson stop taking pictures and became a painter, because he grew up and get bored. It's an absolutely different photography when you try to create something from your head and motivating for taking picture from life it self. For example, when you see wild river of life you can jump in to the stream to explore the unexplored sides or watch on the other side how water fluid. Be a member of action or be a observer.

 

[Scrambler]

Absolutely it's not.

Not referring to your commentary, Rich, just giving the two polar opposites. I personally think that there are many sorts of photographs including a lot of "street" that don't require a "decisive moment" approach. And then there are others that do.

HCB's photos of Ghandi's death and funeral strike me as visually banal, almost snapshots. A massive emotional moment, but the need to simply document ruled out the ability to artistically frame the subjects. He had to take what he could get. Even the saints of old sometimes just needed to be happy to simply have a photo, any photo.

 

[Scrambler]

I think this is the reason why Bresson stop taking pictures and became a painter, because he grew up and get bored. It's an absolutely different photography when you try to create something from your head and motivating for taking picture from life it self. For example, when you see wild river of life you can jump in to the stream to explore the unexplored sides or watch on the other side how water fluid. Be a member of action or be a observer.

I'll confess to not exactly getting your meaning in the second half of your quote, but the first half is missing the perspective that Cartier-Bresson trained as a painter before taking up photography. The camera was a sort of sketchpad to him, a step toward a painting. For most of his life he left the painting unfinished but in later years he decided to finish some instead of doing more sketches.

 

[RichC]

Not referring to your commentary, Rich, just giving the two polar opposites. I personally think that there are many sorts of photographs including a lot of "street" that don't require a "decisive moment" approach. And then there are others that do.

HCB's photos of Ghandi's death and funeral strike me as visually banal, almost snapshots. A massive emotional moment, but the need to simply document ruled out the ability to artistically frame the subjects. He had to take what he could get. Even the saints of old sometimes just needed to be happy to simply have a photo, any photo.

Absolutely agree with you. But I'm really addressing the myth of aspiring to be the photographer who needs just a single exposure to capture a "decisive moment", which afflicts street photography in particular. Like the urban spaceman, he (or she) doesn't exist...

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

In my opinion, all photographs record a single instance, hence all moments are decisive.

What I think wrong with the way the phrase is used, is its application to Bresson, who seldom, if ever, captured moments as telling as those captured every Saturday by ten thousand sports photographers.

I will point out this post is not intended as a troll, simply the presentation of one point of view.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Absolutely agree with you. But I'm really addressing the myth of aspiring to be the photographer who needs just a single exposure to capture a "decisive moment", which afflicts street photography in particular. Like the urban spaceman, he (or she) doesn't exist...

But does this myth enjoy wide circulation among those who know more than the bare minimum about the subject? The photographers themselves make it clear in their writings and contact sheets how they worked. In other words, are not those who wish to debunk the myth the principal advocates for the myth, as it gives them something easy to debunk?

Also, bear in mind the French title of the book that appeared as "The Decisive Moment". It was "Images a la Sauvette": not fully translatable but corresponding more to "Pictures on the Sly" or "Grab Shots".

Cheers,

R.

 

[__jc]

But does this myth enjoy wide circulation among those who know more than the bare minimum about the subject? The photographers themselves make it clear in their writings and contact sheets how they worked. In other words, are not those who wish to debunk the myth the principal advocates for the myth, as it gives them something easy to debunk?

Also, bear in mind the French title of the book that appeared as "The Decisive Moment". It was "Images a la Sauvette": not fully translatable but corresponding more to "Pictures on the Sly" or "Grab Shots".

Cheers,

R.

Most eloquently put. I'd also speculate that the "myth" expounded in the blog post might in fact be a mistaken belief on the part of the writer that his understanding of the way people think C-B worked is widely shared.

 

[Michael Markey]

It may be a myth on forums like this but I can`t agree that it enjoys a wider audience.

Whenever I`ve heard it referred to at my local camera club (once) it drew puzzled looks and needed to be explained.

 

[RichC]

In my opinion, all photographs record a single instance, hence all moments are decisive.

Not all instances in an event are decisive - see my wittering about Diderot and Lessing above.

Cartier-Bresson (well, his English publisher!) appropriated the phrase the "decisive moment" for his kind of photography, and categorically defined it in his book "The Decisive Moment" as a very particular instant in an event about which the narrative hinges.

As Cartier-Bresson first coined the phrase in the photographic context, the least we could do is pay him the courtesy of retaining his meaning...

 

[RichC]

But does this myth enjoy wide circulation among those who know more than the bare minimum about the subject

Seems pretty common in my experience, e.g. at the large (100+ members) local camera club where I'm occasionally invited to talk and judge. Also, if you simply google "decisive moment photography", you'll find a multitude of images and comments that describe the "decisive moment" but are simply a frozen moment - which is not necessarily the same thing. I'll make the rather broad assertion that many of these photographers using the phrase are interested in photography and know about Cartier-Bresson.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Every good photograph is good luck, said HCB...
That's far (his own opinion) from the idea of the photographer as a genius or a superhero being able to wait for the one and only precise moment and able to make any situation a memorable photograph...
Obviously we all wait for the scene to get to its highest visual narrative moment, and if it's possible we shoot more than once and with more than a single composition scheme or point of view, but in the end we need good luck on our side, and some interesting scenes in our minds, might just never reach that level of interest on the final print...
Shooting a lot isn't a good option IMO. Indeed I find more success in the contrary situation: shooting close to only once.
Cheers,
Juan

 

[Sparrow]

It may be a myth on forums like this but I can`t agree that it enjoys a wider audience.

Whenever I`ve heard it referred to at my local camera club (once) it drew puzzled looks and needed to be explained.

... yes but we enjoy more omphaloskepsis here ... well I know I do

 

[02Pilot]

I'm not going to wade into the debate over the true meaning of the phrase "decisive moment," but I will say that the Magnum Contact Sheets book is excellent and instructive. The shooting styles of many photographers become much clearer when you see the whole roll, not just the one they chose to print. Techniques vary widely and, if nothing else, it certainly suggests that there is no single universally correct method.

 

[edge100]

Most eloquently put. I'd also speculate that the "myth" expounded in the blog post might in fact be a mistaken belief on the part of the writer that his understanding of the way people think C-B worked is widely shared.

It most certainly is this.

And that's an appalling mistake from someone who makes his living teaching people about street photography.

 

[Bill Clark]

The decisive moment happens many times in my life.

I now have the time to capture some of them.

However, what is decisive to me may mean little or nothing to someone else.

 

[Michael Markey]

In the text that accompanies Images a la Sauvette ,Bresson talks of the difference between his pre war photography and the constraints imposed by his post war photojournalism.
"I wanted to capture the quint-essence of the phenomenon in a single image ".
I don`t think that suggests that you just take a single image.

 

[waileong]

Lots of people?

Lots of people?

Lots of people? Can you name 10?

Decisive moment suggests that there is one 'best' shot or best time to take a shot. It does not mean that one shot is enough. At least not unless one is very skilled. I think most people can see that.

Lots of people! As I said, a certain mythology has evolved around "the photographer", able to capture a scene in one shot - a view especially prevalent amongst new photographers and non-photographers.

My post was not about what the decisive moment is but how it's captured. (That said, the decisive moment is not quite what many think it is, and more complex: see, for example, my essay "Decoding the decisive moment". However, that is something best discussed in the philosophy forum.)