Decades of Epson woes

[PaulDalex]

Decades of Epson woes

I have had over time 3 Epson A3/A3+ printers. I spent about 1000 for each of them.

The last is the R3000. Before that (if memory helps) the 1280 and long time ago an A3 dye ink printer (750 may be?)

All three quickly failed miserably and I am right now on the verge of throwing the R3000 in the garbage can

All three in a row after a few months started staining the paper with black ink and became unusable.

Not a single review mention this problem!

Am I unlucky?

Read this: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3773605

And look at this: https://www.specialistinks.com/clean-printheads.php
(BTW I bought the kit and made the cleaning only to discover that the problem worsened)

I am asking for help and advice
I have two questions:

First question:

I noticed that the new P800 has a drawer where the excess ink that is removed from the printing head at each pass is collected.

Do you think that this (which is also a sort of tacit admission of the problem by Epson) will protect the user from the above kind of failure?

Second Question:

I mostly print setting the printer so that PS to manages colors. I noticed that this mode of printing produces malfunctions of all sorts. For example when one prints panoramic printing is never completed unless one changes settings, letting the printer manage colors.

Is it possible that this modality of printing, among the other malfunctions, also prevents the mechanism that cleans the print head at each pass to function properly?

On the other side what is certain is that Epson support does not answer question unless one let the printer manage colors.

Thank you all very much in advance for any help

 

[Bobfrance]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.
Printers are a pain and Epson are not a helpful company. That much I think everyone agrees on.

Larger Epson printers have had waste ink tanks for many years, so I wouldn't take that as an admission of any culpability. The P800 is A2+. I believe the smaller A3+ P600 doesn't have a waste tank.

Does the R3000 have 'maintenance mode'? It may be worth checking out if it will do 'supersonic cleaning' like the 7800? https://files.support.epson.com/htmldocs/pro78_/pro78_rf/maint_1.htm

As for gaining absolute control of the printer. If you print mostly black and white and are technically minded (and patient) then you could look at ditching Epson's drivers (and Photoshop's profiles) and try setting up a Quadtone RIP System. The system gives you greater control over the printer. Including how much ink it uses. I use it for printing negatives,

I should add that, in spite of all this, I still have a dead Epson 7800 on my hands that I need to replace soon. 😉

Bob.

 

[Calzone]

P,

I own a 3880 and a 7800. These two printers have waste tanks.

I think what you describe could be that you have to do some maintenance and clean your wiper blade and capping station. On my printers I have a waste tank with absorbent bedding for expelled ink from nozzle cleanings.

Perhaps your "bedding needs to be changed and is saturated. Also at least once a month I clean my capping station. All kinds of sludge builds there otherwise, and I think this is what is being xfered onto your prints.

Check Piezography.com. They actually have a lot of info on maintenance. I'm not familiar with Epson small printers, but I know the 3880 and 7800 are like the most durable printers that Epson ever made along with the 7880, 9800 and 9880.

Your printer likely still has mucho life in it. You just have to clean out the buildup on the capping station.

Cal

 

[Calzone]

Adobe's later versions of PS and LR are known to introduce color management problems.

I use Roy Harrinton's Quadtone RIP along with Roy Harrington's "Print Tool" as my workaround. Now I'm spoiled.

Cal

 

[Bobfrance]

I concur that time needs to be spent cleaning the little wiper and blotting pad to stop a build up of old ink.

Print Tool is a brilliant little program. Particularly when printing in larger formats.

 

[Calzone]

I concur that time needs to be spent cleaning the little wiper and blotting pad to stop a build up of old ink.

Print Tool is a brilliant little program. Particularly when printing in larger formats.

Bob,

With "Print Tool" I print out full 17x22 sheets of 2"x 3" business cards. The IQ is amazing. I found a grocery style self inking rubber stamp that I have the word "COPYRIGHT" along with my name, e-mail address and phone number.

First time I did this I thought I locked up my computer, but after I pressed print it took Print Tool about 6-6 minutes to sort everything out, and then the green light started flashing for print exacution.

I never use the Epson Drivers.

Cal

 

[Bobfrance]

Bob,

With "Print Tool" I print out full 17x22 sheets of 2"x 3" business cards. The IQ is amazing. I found a grocery style self inking rubber stamp that I have the word "COPYRIGHT" along with my name, e-mail address and phone number.

First time I did this I thought I locked up my computer, but after I pressed print it took Print Tool about 6-6 minutes to sort everything out, and then the green light started flashing for print exacution.

I never use the Epson Drivers.

Cal

I found Print Tool saved me a fortune when printing on roll film. You could plan multiple images and ensure you get the most out of every inch of film. By comparison, the Epson drivers took great pleasure in spewing out no end of waste film.

 

[rodt16s]

The R3000 doesn't have a drawer for the ink, but you can add an external tank(printer potty), I have done this and it saves a lot of problem with a pad saturated in ink.
Suggest to not switch the printer off, but leave in stand-by and run a regular nozzle check to exercise the ink through the head

However I've had nothing but disappointment with my R3000.
My problem has been akin to a drifting profile, often adding a colour cast (green or magenta) depending on it's mood, I recently discussed with some else who had the same issue, they finally ditched, which is where I going.
Epson are not interested, their support seems quite poor

 

[ptpdprinter]

However I've had nothing but disappointment with my R3000. My problem has been akin to a drifting profile, often adding a colour cast (green or magenta) depending on it's mood, I recently discussed with some else who had the same issue, they finally ditched, which is where I going. Epson are not interested, their support seems quite poor

Which Canon are you contemplating? Are there other alternatives?

 

[rodt16s]

Which Canon are you contemplating? Are there other alternatives?

I'm thinking of having the ability for A2, but haven't dismissed the idea of another Epson.
Thinking that I may have a rouge, however the Canon Pro1000 is on the shortlist

 

[Dogman]

A disclaimer: I'm not an overly technical person. I'm kind of a seat-of-the-pants shooter and printer who tends to muddle through and still get good results most of the time. So take that into consideration.

Apparently I've been extremely lucky. I've had an R3000 since shortly after they were introduced to the market. Other than three or four instances of having to run multiple head cleaning cycles (using lots of ink), I have no complaints with the printer's operation. Furthermore, I've been getting really good prints.

I don't know if it has contributed to my good luck but my R3000 is totally dedicated to printing photos and only photos, only on matte paper--I never switch inks from matte black to photo black. This uses less ink so there's less waste ink splashing around inside.

As for color management, I did have difficulties with the canned profiles for papers from Epson, Canson, Hahnemuhle and everyone else. I did some online research and saw an article by Ctein, the well respected printer, in which he said he no longer uses profiles. He always lets his Epson printers manage the colors. I recall him saying he recommended trying this procedure when using the Mac operating systems--I don't recall whether or not he advised doing so with Windows. Well, I use a Mac so gave it a try and it worked wonderfully for me.

 

[PaulDalex]

Many thanks for your help, to all of you Bob, Calzone, rodt16s, pdp, dogman.
I really appreciate your advice!
Actually I am not at your technical level, but I am willing to learn and I will study your suggestions carefully.
Meanwhile I discovered from your posts that there are also other issues and one has to fight to find workarounds for those too.

Regarding the staining issue, I see that all larger printer have a waste tank with consumable blotting paper. I guess this is a good reason to avoid the smaller printers.

A possible non-geek but nerve preserving solution could be buying the P800 (with the side benefit to upgrade to A2) and pay the big bribe Epson charges to extend the warranty to say 4 years.

I also considered switching to Canon

However, I am working over the years at an anthology of my (hobbyist) activity, making for the moment a scrap book using a leather cover album with 35x35 cm pages. Now if I change brand I guess I better reprint all the already finished images. In addition, I learned that the Canon 10S for example is not compatible with PS and psd files.

These facts are deal breakers for me

 

[Calzone]

Many thanks for your help, to all of you Bob, Calzone, rodt16s, pdp, dogman.
I really appreciate your advice!
Actually I am not at your technical level, but I am willing to learn and I will study your suggestions carefully.
Meanwhile I discovered from your posts that there are also other issues and one has to fight to find workarounds for those too.

Regarding the staining issue, I see that all larger printer have a waste tank with consumable blotting paper. I guess this is a good reason to avoid the smaller printers.

A possible non-geek but nerve preserving solution could be buying the P800 (with the side benefit to upgrade to A2) and pay the big bribe Epson charges to extend the warranty to say 4 years.

I also considered switching to Canon

However, I am working over the years at an anthology of my (hobbyist) activity, making for the moment a scrap book using a leather cover album with 35x35 cm pages. Now if I change brand I guess I better reprint all the already finished images. In addition, I learned that the Canon 10S for example is not compatible with PS and psd files.

These facts are deal breakers for me

P,

Thanks for the compliment, but know that I am kind of a bonehead. Perhaps because I'm might stubborn and thick headed is why I can overcome the many problems that come up.

One of the reasons why I like the older workhorse printers is because they
mean once I learn them I can remain dumb and live inside the comfortable bubble I created. These larger printers surely were built more sturdy and are known to have mucho long print head life. Also these printers are deemed user servicable.

For information overload and support I do recommend going to Piezography.com. There is lots of helpful information. I did lots of data mining and picked printers with great reputations. I also learned of all the quirks. My 3880 can switch glossy to mat, but I know that the ink switch is a weak point, and after three years of printing I never ever switched this ink switcher. I only print glossy.

I can see me using my 3880 and 7800 well into the future, perhaps for decades.

Cal

 

[PRJ]

For what it is worth, the past experience I've had with Epson printers would make me never buy one. Canon will be the way I'd go.

Frankly, for the amateur it makes almost no economic sense to run your own printer if you want the highest quality prints. Let someone who knows what they are doing do it for you. Unless you have the knowledge and capability to profile everything yourself, you won't get the best results.

 

[ptpdprinter]

Frankly, for the amateur it makes almost no economic sense to run your own printer if you want the highest quality prints. Let someone who knows what they are doing do it for you. Unless you have the knowledge and capability to profile everything yourself, you won't get the best results.

I shouldn't think a serious amateur would leave of to others the making of his prints.

 

[Dogman]

I shouldn't think a serious amateur would leave of to others the making of his prints.

Agreed. Printing photographs in the digital age is much simpler than printing photographs 50 years ago. Fifty years ago virtually all serious amateurs had darkrooms and would not have even considered letting others process their film or make their prints--at least for the B&W printing.

 

[PRJ]

I shouldn't think a serious amateur would leave of to others the making of his prints.

So only professionals should let other people, who know more than they, make their prints better than they could?


The idea that "artists" should make their own prints is rather archaic in this digital age. Like I said, it is much more economical for the average person to just get someone who is better than they to make the prints for them. By the time you average the cost of the printer into the amount of prints made, it is ridiculous for joe blow amateur to maintain a printer.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Decades of Epson woes

I have had over time 3 Epson A3/A3+ printers. I spent about 1000 for each of them.

The last is the R3000. Before that (if memory helps) the 1280 and long time ago an A3 dye ink printer (750 may be?)

All three quickly failed miserably and I am right now on the verge of throwing the R3000 in the garbage can

All three in a row after a few months started staining the paper with black ink and became unusable.

Not a single review mention this problem!

Am I unlucky?

What you're seeing is from the internal waste tank being full. This is not user-replaceable on the smaller Epson printers, but as you mentioned below, it is on the P800. I used an Epson r2400 for almost a decade before filling its waste tank. You must be a VERY heavy user to have this happen within months of buying a printer!

I have two questions:

First question:

I noticed that the new P800 has a drawer where the excess ink that is removed from the printing head at each pass is collected.

Do you think that this (which is also a sort of tacit admission of the problem by Epson) will protect the user from the above kind of failure?

Yes. The larger printers like the P800 are designed for heavy professional use, so they feature a user-replaceable waste tank. It costs about $50. The waste tanks in the smaller printers can only be replaced by an Epson service center and it costs about $200! So, if you are a heavy user, the P800 is worth buying.

Second Question:

I mostly print setting the printer so that PS to manages colors. I noticed that this mode of printing produces malfunctions of all sorts. For example when one prints panoramic printing is never completed unless one changes settings, letting the printer manage colors.

Is it possible that this modality of printing, among the other malfunctions, also prevents the mechanism that cleans the print head at each pass to function properly?

On the other side what is certain is that Epson support does not answer question unless one let the printer manage colors.

Thank you all very much in advance for any help

I have never done any panoramic printing, so I can't help with that. Regarding printer color management, I have found that it gives more accurate colors than using the profiles Epson provides for their papers with Photoshop Color Management. It even works with Ilford papers. I made a video showing how to set it up for best results.

https://youtu.be/roWAfDfyCTA

 

[PRJ]

Agreed. Printing photographs in the digital age is much simpler than printing photographs 50 years ago. Fifty years ago virtually all serious amateurs had darkrooms and would not have even considered letting others process their film or make their prints--at least for the B&W printing.

Yeah, guys like Newton, Avedon, Ritts, Kertesz, all the Magnum photographers like Bresson, etc, all made their own prints (not). But they are professionals. Serious amateurs, whatever that means, would rather make their own of course.

 

[Calzone]

Agreed. Printing photographs in the digital age is much simpler than printing photographs 50 years ago. Fifty years ago virtually all serious amateurs had darkrooms and would not have even considered letting others process their film or make their prints--at least for the B&W printing.

Plus one. I can't imagine someone else printing my work.

Digital definitely makes things easier. I still want a darkroom though.

I'm currently applying for a studio residency, and I presented myself as two artists applying for the one of seventeen studios: one as a fine art B&W printer; and as a fine art B&W photographer.

My two older Epsons have been workhorses.

Cal