Decisions: Zeiss C-Sonnar 50mm / Voigtlander Nokton 50mm

If you really need closer then 0.9m, try the 50mm f1.4 Nikkor-sc in ltm.
Pure sonnar design and will close focus on you a7 down to 0.7m
 
Robert Lai said:
According to internet lore, the Zeiss Sonnar 50 is optimized at either 1.5 or 2.8. I've tested mine, and it is consistently spot on at f/2. I'm glad that someone else has found their lens to be optimized at f/2. It "splits" the focus shift between the other two apertures.
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The other internet story is that after `97 they were all optimised at 1.5.
I don`t know if thats true but mine is spot on at 1.5.

Its a lovely lens Dave ... I think you`ll be happy with it.
 
Robert Lai said:
According to internet lore, the Zeiss Sonnar 50 is optimized at either 1.5 or 2.8. I've tested mine, and it is consistently spot on at f/2. I'm glad that someone else has found their lens to be optimized at f/2. It "splits" the focus shift between the other two apertures.
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Interesting. How does that translate in real life?
Do you shoot without compensating with a high rate of focused images?
 
After thirty years I discovered that my 50 Summicron back focuses by 5cm. Took a lot of great shots with that lens on film. Haven't used it much with digital. My Sonnar is supposedly optimized for 1.5, but in fact is optimized for 2.2, which gives the best of both worlds: minimal focus shift at 1.5, and the greater focus shift at f4 absorbed by the depth of field. If you didn't know there was a thing called focus shift, and if you didn't know the Sonnar's reputation for it, what's the chance you'd discover it?
 
If you are looking for an alternative for the lux pre-a (which I just sold) for mirrorless bodies I can recommend the 50mm planar ZM. Much sharper than both the pre-a lux and the C-sonnar, and also a bit cheaper. IMO if you are looking for a more modern rendering to complement the 50lux, the planar is as clean and modern as you can possibly get without buying modern Leica glass.

I recently sold both of my 50mm Summiluxs (pre-a v2, ASPH), but I thought those complimented each other pretty well. A new combo could be a collapsable standard as a walk-around and a Noctilux...
 
Richard G said:
After thirty years I discovered that my 50 Summicron back focuses by 5cm. Took a lot of great shots with that lens on film. Haven't used it much with digital. My Sonnar is supposedly optimized for 1.5, but in fact is optimized for 2.2, which gives the best of both worlds: minimal focus shift at 1.5, and the greater focus shift at f4 absorbed by the depth of field. If you didn't know there was a thing called focus shift, and if you didn't know the Sonnar's reputation for it, what's the chance you'd discover it?
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On film the focal plane tends to curve just a tiny bit, so focus shift is not as obvious. Optimizing for f2.8 and shoot at f1.5 with the C-sonnar will show, though.

With digital the problem becomes a lot worse, and I believe this was why Leica had to refresh the 35mm Summilux ASPH in 2010...I would check each lens with each body for these notorious models.
 
I've used the 50mm C-Sonnar for a couple of years now and I have had zero issues with focus shift, and I have shot quite a few images close up. I think this is one of these issues that the Internet has blown all out of proportion. It is a fantastic lens, and when you stop it down it is as sharp as any of the Planars or Summicrons. Wide open for portraits it has a unique signature. It may well be that the more demanding requirements of a 36mp digital sensor will show more flaws but I think that is true of all existing lenses.

I also own the new Nokton 50mm f1.5 and it is a more neutral lens, and I would be tempted to say it is more like the pre-ASPH Summilux but I don't own one of those and never have so I can't say for sure... I can say that it is very sharp.
 
Wait a sec Dave... You have the v3 Summilux?
The differences are so insignificant between your lens and the two you are choosing between...you would likely not notice unless you knew which lens took a shot.
You know what I mean... it's just not that dramatic of a difference.
Why look any further than your bag? :p

I would take the V3 Lux over either the Sonnar or Nokton. I just like the Rendering, handling, and slide out hood. Plus looks great on HP5 :D
 
Practical effects of focus optimization at f/2 - none

Practical effects of focus optimization at f/2 - none

Sanmitch asked on the previous page if there was any practical effect of the lens being optimized for f/2. The answer is no.
Unless you're shooting tape measures at an angle, you'll never notice the difference. Certainly not with portraits.

This is with film. I don't own a digital M so I can't tell you if that will show a noticeable shift in focus.
 
I had a Sonnar optimized for 2.8 and massive issues when shooting wide open and short distances (<1,5m). After 1 month, Zeiss changed the optimization to 1.5 (3shims instead of 2 between the front- and rear element).

In general all lenses have focus shift, thats why Leica uses now floating elements for the 35FLE & 50 Summilux asph. and also for the new APO 50, sadly the Sonnars are more effected because of their optical design (reason see link below), thats why Zeiss uses the shims to optimize it it in the one or the other direction.

The reason for focus shift is very well explained here:

http://diglloyd.com/articles/Focus/FocusShift.html

If you want to change the optimization by yourself on the fly, take a look here:

https://www.flickr.com/groups/zeissikon50mm-c/discuss/72157603711459786/

Yogi
 
mod2001 said:
I had a Sonnar optimized for 2.8 and massive issues when shooting wide open and short distances (<1,5m). After 1 month, Zeiss changed the optimization to 1.5 (3shims instead of 2 between the front- and rear element).
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While I did I like the Sonnar for a few reasons, I sold it because I work very subconsciously with my gear and have to react with speed and precision. My lens bought brand new from B&H was also optimized for 2.8 and often was a nightmare to work with at times. In the end I lost some incredibly important shots to the guessing game / fudge factor that is focus shift and sold the lens at a loss.

I am an accomplished photographer and *really* take issue with the notion that the focus shift issues are overblown, I simply need my gear to work to get the Job done and if the Sonnar were optimized for 1.5, that might have been easier to do but then I would have been distracted at 2.8. But in the end with lenses like the 50 1.4 asph being more of what I really needed, the Sonnar in current form will never be a good fit, too much fiddling.

So for me, a big no thanks to the Sonnar. I only need and want one 50 and the asph is it...
 
Now you guys are making me feel all buyers-remorseful like!! ;)

I've been trying to burn through a roll of Acros to see what the results on film are like but in the meantime I do like how it looks on the A7..

Monty (linked to my Filckr)

Cheers,
Dave
 
The dreamy bokeh of the sonnars is due to spherical aberration, which is also responsible for focus shift. Sadly you can't have one without the other.
 
Scrambler said:
The dreamy bokeh of the sonnars is due to spherical aberration, which is also responsible for focus shift. Sadly you can't have one without the other.
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And I think this is the reason why I "liked" the Sonnar when I tried it - all of my current lenses are pre-ASPH - the Nokton I tried, while it is a great lens, was, for me, "too sharp" and I can only attribute that to the Aspherical elements of the lens.

I had an opportunity to buy a local 35mm ASPH Summilux for a really good price ($2600 CDN) but I thought twice and realized the size of my pre-ASPH lux along with that "dreamy" character at f1.4 can't be replaced.. so I passed on it. Perhaps that's why I was drawn to the Sonnar... hmmm

Cheers,
Dave
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93906237@N04/14076382874/

Not knowing how to upload pictures here, well I have, in the past, but I forgot.

I dont have the C sonnar (tho I admit I want one), I have been shooting with the new 50mm nokton 1.5 on both the m9 and sony a7, and I am loving the results. images are sharp, but with a bit CA at times, pretty smooth bokeh, and very nice to hold. I have the Chrome.

Cheers.
 
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