Detained and questioned in London today
- Thread starter bonatto
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paulfish4570
Veteran
fred, well done. it does not hurt to be polite ...
bonatto
looking out
robert blu
quiet photographer
If both the involved (photographer and officer) are "clever" enough an explanation should be enough to male things clear without additional problems. We are living in a difficult time in most of countries. IMO Fred handled the situation very well. The problem arise when we meet somebody who only because wearing an uniform thinks to be the only one who has rights and treat you as a real bad criminal. Unfortunately this sometimes happen. Learning to be calm and not confront in arrogant way is useful.
robert
robert
oftheherd
Veteran
Standard police action. People put the strangest things in their pockets, like knives and guns.
Joosep
Well-known
Wouldnt have acted better myself !
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
Dennis,
Sadly, they are not doing their job. PCSOs (Police Community Support Officers aka Plastic Plod) have no power of arrest and, without a court order, bo-one has the power to either sieze your equipment (ooooer!) or try to enforce deletion of digital images or take film from your camera.
I don't like aggression or confrontation any more than any other law abiding citizen. However, I commute through Liverpool Street every day and I always have a camera in my bag to shoot anything I find interesting. I've fallen foul of these over-zealous, poorly trained "Judge Dredd" wannabees and the best way to deal with them is to go to the station office (adjacent to Platform 10 if anyone's interested) and tell the staff that you would like a permit to shoot.
They ask you to confirm that you are not a professional and that the photos are for your own use, take anote of your name and address and they give you a nice little badge. If some busy-body approaches you, flash the badge at them and they they go looking for someone else to irritate.
In similar circumstances, I would have insisted that there was at least one member of the British Transport Police present and I would have also insisted that they confirm in writing their exact reasons for detaining me and wanting to search my belongings. I don't see this as being in any way unreasonable as we have civil rights for a reason and, if we allow them to be eroded by upstarts like the ones described by the OP, it's a steep and slippery slope to a Police state.
bonatto
looking out
What job is that? Looking at people's pictures? How about all of the bags that are brought into subways and trains uncheck constantly?
Exdsc
Well-known
Knowing when and where not to take a photo is a skill that cannot be taught, it depends on the personality. If you don't have the sixth sense for your surrounding and the intuition to stick around or move on then you're in the wrong business or genre of photography.
andrewmore
Too many cameras....
Liverpool Street Station is operated by Network Rail not TfL. Network Rail are very supportive of photography - find their website, enter 'photography' in the serch box and see their take on the matter. Some simple procedures to follow. That their staff don't understand their own rules is alas another matter..
(In passing Liverpool Street Station featues often in commercials, films and TV programmes because of its unusual two-level arrangements.)
Regards
Andrew More
(In passing Liverpool Street Station featues often in commercials, films and TV programmes because of its unusual two-level arrangements.)
Regards
Andrew More
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
No, completely free of charge. It's been a few months since I did it but no money changed hands.
Incidentally, the reception received at Kings Cross / St Pancras couldn't have been more different. The station staff there actually took me to a couple of places where they thought I might get a better shot...!!
Marc G.
film loving student
I wouldnt freak out if a police dude approaches me because it's their job to investigate, as long as this happens in a mannered way (just like the dude approaching the italian student in the video posted here). but if they already go all out blazing at one then I would immediately defend myself and might get angry
with the other story of the swimming lessons: this is where I would definitely freak out and do whatever it takes to kick the ass of the person offending me in such an unmannered way. imagining the situation as you described it I would talk to the management there and tell them I'd tell the story to a newspaper. might get their heads straight if they dont want bad publicity. after all.. if someone tells me not to take photos of my own child, I'd get really aggressive
with the other story of the swimming lessons: this is where I would definitely freak out and do whatever it takes to kick the ass of the person offending me in such an unmannered way. imagining the situation as you described it I would talk to the management there and tell them I'd tell the story to a newspaper. might get their heads straight if they dont want bad publicity. after all.. if someone tells me not to take photos of my own child, I'd get really aggressive
Michael Markey
Veteran
Yep ...well spotted ...I did ask .
Lots of "did you get my good side".
My view is that they are doing a job and I ,for one, am thankful for it after what happened in the States and on the London underground.
I wouldn`t want to make that job any more difficult any more than I`d want anyone to make mine difficult.
Tact and good manners go a long way in such situations.
The OP did the correct thing.
Safety trumps photography in these situations I feel.
Lots of "did you get my good side".
My view is that they are doing a job and I ,for one, am thankful for it after what happened in the States and on the London underground.
I wouldn`t want to make that job any more difficult any more than I`d want anyone to make mine difficult.
Tact and good manners go a long way in such situations.
The OP did the correct thing.
Safety trumps photography in these situations I feel.
steveclem
Well-known
Their hands? What if they're martial arts experts, should they have them cut off ? What I meant was who allows civilians the authority to demand this. It doesn't matter if you're concealing a weapon, it matters if you use it. 2 different things.
BlackXList
Well-known
and when to take or not take a photograph has absolutely nothing at all to do with when someone with no legal right to do many of the things that happened in this story decides that they might like to take issue with you taking photos.
In fact I'd say that's exactly the kind of thing that should be photographed, rather than just going for the path of least resistance.
I know a lot of people in this thread have praised Bonatto's actions, and I'm quite sure that it lead to an easier resolution to the situation and while I'm in no way criticising him, what actually happened was at best infringement of rights, if not downright illegal. The security etc in this instance were not "doing their job" at all, they were acting well in excess of their authority, and arguably the law.
Justification of infringement of things like that because of a "fear" that something bad may or may not happen is not acceptable in the slightest.
Ming Rider
Film, the next evolution.
The silly thing about this 'Terrorist Photography' craze that's infecting the powers that be, is that if the OP had been a genuine terrorist planning a 'job', all he/she would have had to say is "I'm photographing for my occupation/hobby/project" and the authorities would be none the wiser.
What do the police expect a terrorist photographer to be photographing and/or do they think they will be carrying an 'Official Al Qaeda Photographer' press-card?
What do the police expect a terrorist photographer to be photographing and/or do they think they will be carrying an 'Official Al Qaeda Photographer' press-card?
bonatto
looking out
in retrospect I should have gotten their details etc
thejameskendall
Established
I had armed police* turn up to a self portrait shoot me and a friend did that had a kind of an old school paramilitary vibe to it. we didn't have fake guns, or real ones, but we did have balaclavas.
that was exciting. to say the least. they were lovely though, even let us quickly finish the shoot even though we'd clearly freaked someone out enough to call them saying we were armed.
with the right attitude the proper police can be cool, but i find it's bored security guards etc that are the pain in the arse.
*I'm in the UK where the police don't carry guns
that was exciting. to say the least. they were lovely though, even let us quickly finish the shoot even though we'd clearly freaked someone out enough to call them saying we were armed.
with the right attitude the proper police can be cool, but i find it's bored security guards etc that are the pain in the arse.
*I'm in the UK where the police don't carry guns
BlackXList
Well-known
I wasn't meaning any criticism of your approach at all, it diffused the situation, which was of course the objective, so job done!
To get all annoyed like I'm sure I would have done, would have escalated the issue I'm sure, and as much as I'd be full of "righteous" indignation, that's obviously not always the smart decision.
It's probably less a case of knowing when to take photos and when not to and more of a case of knowing which battles to pick.
