frank-grumman
Well-known
Hmmm, let's see.... could this entire issue have been precluded had said journalist been equipped with a long lens? Just askin'.... 😀 😀 😀
Detroit Newspaper Photographer Arrested While Covering Police Action
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frank-grumman
Well-known
Indeed, Sir, Indeed!! My last time in NYC, fortunately some long time ago, certainly supports your assessment, at least so far as the NYPD officers (sic) I saw. Sloppily dressed, shirt tails hanging out of their trousers, hair unkempt, cover (that's a "hat") akimbo, and, most deplorable of all, those officers who had the security straps on the weapon holster DISCONNECTED, and, with sloppy belts, allowed their weapon to hang, flopping around on their hip, well, 'nuff said.
frank-grumman
Well-known
Phil and Edward.... +2
Frontman
Well-known
Interesting, I worked in law enforcement for more than 10 years and never smashed, opened, or even looked at someone's camera when they were photographing me, nor do I know another police officer who has. Oftentimes someone has walked up on a situation they know nothing about and started yelling obscenities and taking pictures when they thought I or someone else was acting "aggressively" during an arrest. The last time this happened was during the arrest of man who had fled in his car when I attempted to pull him over. He hit a couple of other cars and disabled his own, and to get him out, he had to be pulled out through he window. He struggled to get away, and subduing him was difficult. A young man walked up and took a few photos with a small camera, which I didn't mind, but then he started yelling "police abuse"! at the top of his lungs. The man we had chased and arrested was a parolee who had just murdered a convenience store clerk with a gun (a married man with young children whom we had known for years), and he was out on parole after serving several years in prison for another murder.
We didn't arrest or detain the "photographer" or touch his camera, but we did give him a few choice words. Had he met the man we had arrested in a dark alley somewhere, he would have likely fared much worse.
The average police officer isn't particularly well educated, or have above-average intelligence, and the amount of human stupidity an officer witnesses in the course of a single day is enough to wear one's patience thin. In 10 years of police work I can't even begin to recall the number of dead and seriously hurt I have seen. Or how many times I have arrested someone, only to have to arrest the same person again and again. The job can be busy, difficult, political, and numbing to one's mind, and can try one's patience severely. One should consider this before confronting a police officer to "give advice" or take pictures. If you want to take some photos, simply ask. Legally-speaking, you don't need permission, but being polite goes a very long way.
We didn't arrest or detain the "photographer" or touch his camera, but we did give him a few choice words. Had he met the man we had arrested in a dark alley somewhere, he would have likely fared much worse.
The average police officer isn't particularly well educated, or have above-average intelligence, and the amount of human stupidity an officer witnesses in the course of a single day is enough to wear one's patience thin. In 10 years of police work I can't even begin to recall the number of dead and seriously hurt I have seen. Or how many times I have arrested someone, only to have to arrest the same person again and again. The job can be busy, difficult, political, and numbing to one's mind, and can try one's patience severely. One should consider this before confronting a police officer to "give advice" or take pictures. If you want to take some photos, simply ask. Legally-speaking, you don't need permission, but being polite goes a very long way.
frank-grumman
Well-known
Sir, all I can say is a) thank your for service 🙂 and, b) you said it all.
Frontman
Well-known
I wish I had been bored. At least 5 routine calls backed up at all times for things like minor thefts and accidents, each call takes at least half an hour to clear, at least two pages of paperwork required for each call. When you show up to the next call you always hear "what took you so long?". And, of course, if an emergency call comes in, the routine calls get pushed down the list.
More help would be nice, but the city put itself deep into debt through expensive and often unnecessary projects (a $1 million public toilet comes to mind), amid shrinking revenue, and administration costs eat up most of the budget, so there is little left to hire the people who actually do the work.
More help would be nice, but the city put itself deep into debt through expensive and often unnecessary projects (a $1 million public toilet comes to mind), amid shrinking revenue, and administration costs eat up most of the budget, so there is little left to hire the people who actually do the work.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Thanks for taking the time to post this ... it gives the thread some needed balance. 🙂
frank-grumman
Well-known
and if I may add, imagine you are the first responder to an accident scene in which a motorcyclist has impaled himself upon the disjointed rear bumper of one of the cars involved the accident - said rice-rocket rider speeding down the breakdown lane at high speed according to witnesses - and, you had to climb down the slope of the steep decline to see if the guy was alive - he wasn't - and view the carnage and what was left the rider: picture a body torn asunder; and then a) to be asked when you got back to the barracks "you got the xxx48 filled out yet?" and, b) then to be sued by the family of the decedent for failure to attempt to resuscitate what was left of the corpse. I expect it was probably a good thing that "cutie poops" in the OP's post wasn't there with her iPhone. 😀 😀
L Collins
Well-known
Well, I would hope they know the laws. they're charged with arresting people who break the laws, so it seems to me that a knowledge of the law would be the first prerequisite for being a cop. Seriously, think about the implications of what you are saying. It's scary.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Pablito
coco frío
What would you do if YOU were arrested for photographing the police?
This poll is missing the one obvious choice that any committed photojournalist would opt for: Deal with it. Just go back out and keep doing your job. Hopefully with the full backing of your employer.
This poll is missing the one obvious choice that any committed photojournalist would opt for: Deal with it. Just go back out and keep doing your job. Hopefully with the full backing of your employer.
Athiril
Established
Well ****.
Luckily they only removed the sim, maybe they thought that was a memory card? (Though hard to believe, can they be that dumb?)
I'd be getting a wifi memory card scrubbing the label off and putting a sandisk sticker on it.
Luckily they only removed the sim, maybe they thought that was a memory card? (Though hard to believe, can they be that dumb?)
I'd be getting a wifi memory card scrubbing the label off and putting a sandisk sticker on it.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Hah. I suppose that really is the ONLY choice.
frank-grumman
Well-known
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Till your dead of course. Then, there are no choices.
frank-grumman
Well-known
that would be true, sir
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Tho I can't recall a thread about a US cop killing anyone for making a photograph. I'm sure there would be a really indignant thread if that happened.
And no, I'm not making light of what goes on in the world, rather pointing to the comparatively small harms which have occurred in this case.
And no, I'm not making light of what goes on in the world, rather pointing to the comparatively small harms which have occurred in this case.
Frontman
Well-known
Good advice, except for the last point. "Standing your ground" is likely to cause trouble. So many altercations and the resulting consequences would not occur if people were wise enough not to "stand their ground" and simply walked away.
Pride can be a stupid and dangerous thing in high tension situations. A little judgment can go a long way here. Exactly how important are the pictures you want to take? How sensible is it to stand your ground in a place where a crime has been committed, a person is being arrested, or the police are trying to maintain order?
Police are supposed to be professionals, but they are used to dealing with the worst of people on a regular basis, and for their own safety and the respect of their position, they often have to enforce their positions physically. Their jobs require them to react instantly, more than once I have had a suspect try to bolt away or sucker-punch me. I learned to react without thinking. If Joe-Blow comes up and pulls out a camera, or gets in my face, it's possible that my hands may do something before my mind can tell them not to. I should know better, but one can never predict what will happen in a situation.
I once pulled over a guy for driving with a suspended license. I handcuffed him and had him lean against his car. A few people from the neighborhood gathered to watch what was going on. As I led the guy to my car to put him in, an old woman came up behind us and clocked the man on the head with a tire-iron. She was taking a second swing when I grabbed her arm to stop her, so then she started swinging at me. She was about about 60 years old, but outweighed me by a good 100 pounds, and she was strong. I wrestled her to the ground with the bystanders yelling at me. The guy I had arrested tried to run away, but the woman had clocked him good, and he kept falling down. I had to have backup come to help with the woman and disperse the crowd.
Sounds interesting, but something like this happens all the time. People are unpredicatble, and just when you think you have seen the ultimate in human stupidity, someone else quickly comes along to raise the bar.
You are much better off not standing your ground, or adding your own presence to the confusion which already exists. Police usually expect the worse in a situation (because the worse regularly occurs), and may react severely when confronted, out of habit born from necessity.
I am glad to no longer be in law enforcement, it is nice to be able to see humanity from a better perspective. When I see police activity, I never think to take pictures, it's none of my business.
There were newspaper photographers whom I knew, and I let them take photos whenever and wherever they liked. They saw as much madness and mayhem as the police did, and there was mutual respect. They never came onto a scene without asking permission, and we never denied them access.
Ranchu
Veteran
frank-grumman
Well-known
So, Ranchu, whom do you call when you're getting your arse whipped 😀 😀
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