Developing Tri-X...

David_Manning

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I'd been using HC-110 on and off with really poor consistency (I think due to the short development times for dilution B).

I developed two rolls of box-speed Tri-X in Kodak's TMax developer, and with Kodak-recommended label times, really liked the result.

I just thought I'd throw that out there. By the way, the title TMax on the developer is only a Kodak name for current b&w products...it doesn't mean it's only good for TMax film. For a while, they were calling BW400CN Tmax also.

---David.

5451228344_1e2e77940a_b.jpg
 
agreed, absolutely love that grains with the trix + tmax developer combo..
just wondering how many times have you reuse the tmax developer untill it exhausted? and how do you compensate timing wise if you reuse?

5189313309_e9e0cd1dca_b.jpg
 
Interesting...

I've been using HC-110B with my Trix also and have been worried with the short dev times. They've come out pretty well so far...

I don't hear much about the Tmax developer...why is that?
 
just wondering how many times have you reuse the tmax developer untill it exhausted? and how do you compensate timing wise if you reuse?

I use TMax 1+4 as recommended by Kodak for TMZ or push processing. If I have a lot of rolls I mix up a gallon and go for it:
Rolls 1 to 16 Use normal development time
Rolls 17 to 32 Normal development time + 1 minute
Rolls 33 to 48 Normal development time + 2 minutes​

If I have fewer rolls of film I make up 1L and divide these numbers by 4 - that way I can develop 12 rolls using 1 L of developer. I don't see a significant difference between the first and last 4 rolls when used this way, but for important rolls I use it one shot. It's not easy to get here so that influences how I use it too.

Examples later.

Marty
 
Tri-X is really good 7 minutes in rodinal 1:25 with 10 seconds agitation every 90 second. D76 is also classic, and XTOL works well. I dislike the tmax developers, primarily because I'm pretty cheap.
 
I use TMax 1+4 as recommended by Kodak for TMZ or push processing. If I have a lot of rolls I mix up a gallon and go for it:
Rolls 1 to 16 Use normal development time
Rolls 17 to 32 Normal development time + 1 minute
Rolls 33 to 48 Normal development time + 2 minutes​

If I have fewer rolls of film I make up 1L and divide these numbers by 4 - that way I can develop 12 rolls using 1 L of developer. I don't see a significant difference between the first and last 4 rolls when used this way, but for important rolls I use it one shot. It's not easy to get here so that influences how I use it too.

Examples later.

Marty

Is this with TMax or TMax RS? I know TMax RS is designed to be reused, but I always thought TMax was one-shot.
 
I don't know what you were doing with TriX and HC-110 but you were doing it wrong. TriX works with HC-110 whether dilution B or H. In fact TriX is easily developed in any developer. If you like Tmax developer use it, but be sure your technique is consistent and you have tested your results to get the final image the way you like it. Just because you didn't do well with one developer a few times and got lucky with another, it doesn't mean that the first developer is bad. Maybe reading the basics of the scientific method would be helpful:

Here is a start for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

I don't mean to be mean, but think.
 
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I just thought I'd throw that out there. By the way, the title TMax on the developer is only a Kodak name for current b&w products...it doesn't mean it's only good for TMax film. For a while, they were calling BW400CN Tmax also.

That's not why Kodak named that developer Tmax. It was originally designed for Pushing Tmax p3200 and Tmax 400, and for those purposes it is far and away the BEST developer I have ever tried. As you discovered it makes a nice general purpose developer too.

Try it diluted 1+7 or 1+9. That will give you longer developing times, which are actually better because short times can give uneven developing and short times also require more precision in working. For example, on a 5 minute developing time if you leave the film in one minute too long, that's a 20% change, which makes a noticeable amount of overdeveloping. On a ten minute time, one minute extra is only 10% over. The higher dilutions also reduce the cost of using this rather costly developer.

leica34.jpg

Tri-X in Tmax Developer 1+7


leica2.jpg

Tmax 400 in Tmax Developer 1+7
 
I too use Rodinal 1:50, for Tri-X at 400, 800, 1600, 3200 and beyond 🙂

Tmax 400 in TMax dev is most excellent though, but I have developed TMY in Rodinal 1:50 and after a few tries got some nice results I like. i'm just a Rodinal junkie 😉 - it's just too easy.
 
Is this with TMax or TMax RS? I know TMax RS is designed to be reused, but I always thought TMax was one-shot.

Those numbers are straight from Kodak's data sheet for TMax (NOT RS) developer. TMax can be reused but not replenished, TMax RS is designed for replenishment and for sheet films where TMax can cause dichroic fog and fail to remove the antihalation backing.

Kodak's naming of these developers is confusing. As Chris pointed out, this developer was not formulated for TMax films - those films were formulated to be developed in D76 and with later formulations, also in Xtol. But then, for several decades Kodak had two completely different 120 format films called "Tri-X", so I don't suppose I can expect much. Losing that confusion is about the only good thing about losing TXP 120, although losing TXP 220 was worse - the death of that format in traditional monochrome emulsions.

Marty
 
Tmax Developer (the regular non-RS version) can be reused if it is used at the standard 1+4 dilution. To do so, you have to mix the whole bottle at once (It makes a gallon of working strength) and you pour the used developer back into the one gallon jug and this can be done a certain number of times, with added time added after a certain number of rolls. I cannot remember the specifics because I've never done it. Developers should never be reused for most consistant results.

Tmax developer cannot be reused at all if used at the higher dilutions of 1+7 and 1+9; it is strictly once-shot at those dilutions.
 
Ok, I looked it up in the tech publication from Kodak. Pub. J-86.

It says you can develop 16 rolls in a gallon with no time compensation. For rolls 17-32 you add one minute to the base developing time (not one minute per roll, just one minute total) and for rolls 33-48 you add two minutes to the base time. After 48 rolls, replace the developer. Also, this scheme does not apply to push processing, which must be done with fresh developer and not reused...and this includes processing of Tmax 3200 film, which is always pushed because of the way the film was designed.
 
Yes, try it with TMZ or pushes at your own peril, but it's worked for me. If you have pushes or TMZ, do them in the first 16 rolls/gallon.

You can do the same for up to 16 rolls in 1L (or, to be more precise, one quart, but it works with one litre for me) of 1+4 working solution if you work it as normal time rolls 1-4, +1 minute rolls 5-8, +2 minutes rolls 9-12. Liquids can be split like this easily because the developing components are evenly distributed, unlike in powders.

Try at your own peril. Do what Kodak says to be safe.

I have some very cool results from an experiment that followed our D76 1+1 discussion. I need to find a light table to photograph them, but I'll show them soon.

Marty
 
I'd been using HC-110 on and off with really poor consistency (I think due to the short development times for dilution B).

I developed two rolls of box-speed Tri-X in Kodak's TMax developer, and with Kodak-recommended label times, really liked the result.

I just thought I'd throw that out there. By the way, the title TMax on the developer is only a Kodak name for current b&w products...it doesn't mean it's only good for TMax film. For a while, they were calling BW400CN Tmax also.

---David.

5451228344_1e2e77940a_b.jpg

I followed a similar path all those years ago when I started developing my own film. I also intially used HC110-B dilution with mixed results. After three months of achieving burnt highlights with photos taken on a sunny day as well as negatives with a full range of zone, I came to the conclusion that HC110-B is a very finicky combination that requires precise care.

In my case the inconsistent results were due to four factors:

a) Pouring the correct amount of developer can be quite difficult if you don't have a syringe, as it is very viscous, especially compared to Rodinal. If memory serves correctly, I was using 16ml for a two reel Jobo tank. This stuff is sticky and getting an accurate measure can require patience and care.

b) For film shot at EI:200 on sunny days with strong highlights, B dilution is not the way to go as reduction in development is too much. If I recall I was souping TRI-X at EI:400 for between 6 and 7 minutes. Now if you want to shorten that time to account for the extra stop exposure, then you are looking at a time that is very short.

c) Pour times have to be accurate.

d) Highlights can go zap, even with the EI:400 time, as this is a very high energy developer.

SO,

If you want to achieve fantastic results, go with HC110-H dilution, with 8ml for a 2 reel Jobo tank. I was doing times between 9 and 11 minutes depending on my EI and light conditions.

However, I sooned moved to D76 1:1 as that was all I could purchase. That is one of the great internet debates, you know the better developer for TRI-X, either D76 or HC110.

In my opinion, the negatives from HC110 are better to my eye than the old favorite D76 1:1 and Rodinal. Shot on a Leica lens, the tonality and sharpness was something else. That is just my personal taste. But, having said that I now use only Rodinal as I prefer the bigger grain and back to point A - I think Rodinal is much easier to deal with and pour, as it doesn't stick to the sides of the beaker like honey does.

Chris has provided some stunning examples done with TMAX developer. I personally could never replicate results like this, so I personally wouldn't recommend it. The reasons being that it is not only expensive, but I much prefer the grain from D76, HC110 and Rodinal. However, used in competent hands you can achieve fantastic results.

History is on the side of D76 in terms of heritage when mixed with TRI-X. In a sense, all of those thousands of photojournalists had a very good reason for using this combination. Tom A has written a fantastic post recently on D76 1:1 as a combination with TRI-X. Thats where I would head if I were you. It is best to learn on that combination and branch out from there.

Cheers
 
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