Digi Bessa

[esearing]

I'm loving shooting film again in small format since gettting my R3M. Still suffering from GAS while hunting for my birthdate M3 and a bargain 35 f2. Can't afford the MM, and not really liking the Sony over saturated look. And I'm getting too old to carry heavy glass.

It might be nice if Cosina stepped up with a well made affordable full frame Bessa digital 20MP+ rangefinder style body that takes M lenses. Color and Monochrome versions. Just sayin...

 

[tyrone.s]

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, it would be nice but probably not likely. Presumably Cosina wouldn't have a problem with the technical and production capacity to make one, having demonstrated they can with the RD-1.

But I'd imagine they haven't because in house financial modelling would show that it's not clearly profitable to them to do so and likely to loose money overall as a business model. After all who want's to enter 'oh you have the last generation sensor market?'.

Also It seems that all the full frame digital producers (with the exception of Leica?) have big corporate parents / other divisions to spread losses around.

I wonder if there's any reason why it needs to be full frame, apart from crop factor? Also I wonder about the real need for Colour and Monochrome versions - surely that could all be done in post processing (or on board by the camera's own CPU). Perhaps the reason is to create an artificial choice and sell more variations at no real cost to the manufacturer? I find it hard to conceive that greyscale digital could have more 'purity' or quality as a final image printed on paper than colour converted to greyscale (especially given the massive range of options to do so in post).

 

[esearing]

Crop factor is my biggest gripe with DSLRs aps-c and 4/3 sensors. They are great for long lenses but render your wide lenses as normal. I find I want to shoot wider and wider.

As for sensor tech, I think that the 20-24 MP is as large as most people will want to process. Pros may need 50MP+ but the rest of us hobbyists likely never print above 12 x 18 inches. They could instead work on dynamic range of the sensors and other software improvements . They could even remove video and other bloat and probably increase FPS or Auto HDR.

 

[BrooklyNYC]

I love my Bessa R3A and I would be the first in line to pay for a digital Voigtlander if it were ever made. I've waited some years already and there is still no digital Bessa. I can see why they might be hesitant to make one because digital cameras have a very short shelf life compared to film cameras. If a dealer has a old Voigtlander Bessa R3A sitting in their inventory for years, the camera will hold it's value. Especially with the occasional factory price increases. I can't imagine how much value a ten year old digital camera will decrease by.

 

[Hunter S Thompson]

Where does Cosina make *anything* on their own? Cosina is a contractor, that makes cameras and lenses for other designers.

 

[jonmanjiro]

Where does Cosina make *anything* on their own? Cosina is a contractor, that makes cameras and lenses for other designers.

Cosina owns the "Voigtlander" brand so anything they sell that's branded as a Voigtlander product is designed and manufactured by them.

 

[BrooklyNYC]

Where does Cosina make *anything* on their own? Cosina is a contractor, that makes cameras and lenses for other designers.

Cosina makes Voigtlander camera and lenses on their own.

Check out this article by PopPhoto on Cosina:

http://www.popphoto.com/news/2008/12/speaking-frankly-contrary-mind-hirofumi-kobayashi

The owner of Cosina, Hirofumi Kobayashi licensed the Voigtlander name to produce cameras and lenses. Mr.Kobayashi might decide to produce digital cameras under the Voigtlander name.

Cosina is way more than a contractor.

Also check out this article about the Cosina factory tour: http://www.japanexposures.com/2009/05/04/cosina-lens-and-camera-factory-tour-report/

 

[BrooklyNYC]

Cosina owns the "Voigtlander" brand so anything they sell that's branded as a Voigtlander product is designed and manufactured by them.

Exactly! I guess Cosina stays below the radar.

 

[Hunter S Thompson]

Cosina owns the "Voigtlander" brand so anything they sell that's branded as a Voigtlander product is designed and manufactured by them.

According to Wikipedia, Voigtlander licenses the name from another company; they dont own the brand.

Regardless, I didnt know that and so now it makes a bit more sense about how Cosina operates.

Thanks.

 

[jonmanjiro]

According to Wikipedia, Voigtlander licenses the name from another company; they dont own the brand.

I was under the impression they bought the name. Thanks for the correction.

I've heard Cosina also has a lot of design input into the Zeiss products as well.

 

[Hunter S Thompson]

Oh ok, I was under the impression they bought the name. Thanks for the correction.

I've heard Cosina also has a lot of design input into the Zeiss products as well.

Well that would devalue Zeiss lenses IMO. Why would a 130 some odd year old company need help making lenses?

Zeiss has been making lenses before Leica, Canon, and Nikon were even born!

 

[jonmanjiro]

Well that would devalue Zeiss lenses IMO. Why would a 130 some odd year old company need help making lenses?

Zeiss has been making lenses before Leica, Canon, and Nikon were even born!

Even an old dog can learn new tricks from the young pups (and we know from lenses like the Nokton 35/1.2 and Apo-Lanthar 125/2.5 that there are some pretty clever young pups at Cosina). And anyway, I'm sure Zeiss gets the final say with anything they stamp their name on, so I wouldn't be particularly concerned about where they get input during the design stage.

As for the manufacturing stage, its pretty clear that Zeiss needs all the help they can get since Cosina does a lot of it for Zeiss already 😉

 

[Hunter S Thompson]

Even an old dog can learn new tricks from the young pups (and we know from lenses like the Nokton 35/1.2 and Apo-Lanthar 125/2.5 that there are some pretty clever young pups at Cosina). And anyway, I'm sure Zeiss gets the final say with anything they stamp their name on, so I wouldn't be particularly concerned about where they get input during the design stage.

As for the manufacturing stage, its pretty clear that Zeiss needs all the help they can get since Cosina does a lot of it for Zeiss already 😉

Just a guess on my part but I think the only thing Zeiss needs help with regards to manufacturing is in keeping costs low. It costs much more to manufacture something in Germany so they off shore it to Japan to Cosina. Notice how Zeiss still makes their extreme lenses in Germany like the 15mm Distagon.

That is one hard lens to make compared to your run-of-the-mill 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm lenses.

I think of Cosina as sort of a camera version of Foxconn.

 

[jonmanjiro]

Just a guess on my part but I think the only thing Zeiss needs help with regards to manufacturing is in keeping costs low. It costs much more to manufacture something in Germany so they off shore it to Japan to Cosina. Notice how Zeiss still makes their extreme lenses in Germany like the 15mm Distagon.

That is one hard lens to make compared to your run-of-the-mill 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm lenses.

I think of Cosina as sort of a camera version of Foxconn.

Zeiss off-shoring manufacturing to Cosina in Japan to keep costs low? Hmmm... the average Japanese wage is only marginally lower than the average German wage so I doubt there's much of a cost saving there.

Just a guess on my part, but I think the reason is Cosina is one of the few manufacturers on the planet with the skills and facilities capable of meeting Zeiss's requirements. Perhaps Tom A will happen across this thread and shed some more light on the topic for us.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Epson contracted Cosina for digi RF. Right?
Who knows why they simply didn't update it with more MPs...
Just slightly more, 20 is too many MPs.

 

[Aristophanes]

The QC costs alone for a digital camera with a large sensor would be massively more than Cosina/Voigtlander's net worth. I doubt they have or can raise the capital to make such an effort.

 

[kshapero]

Just a guess on my part but I think the only thing Zeiss needs help with regards to manufacturing is in keeping costs low. It costs much more to manufacture something in Germany so they off shore it to Japan to Cosina. Notice how Zeiss still makes their extreme lenses in Germany like the 15mm Distagon.

That is one hard lens to make compared to your run-of-the-mill 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm lenses.

I think of Cosina as sort of a camera version of Foxconn.

They are definitely not a Foxconn. They are full fledged manufacturer of cameras and lenses in their own right. All Voigtlander products since 2000 are their products, their brand, their design.

 

[CameraQuest]

The QC costs alone for a digital camera with a large sensor would be massively more than Cosina/Voigtlander's net worth. I doubt they have or can raise the capital to make such an effort.

When was the last time you visited the 5 Cosina factories?

Cosina is partnered with the trademark holder for Voigtlander, partnered with Zeiss on the products they manufacture for Zeiss, and provides OEM engineering and parts for most if not all the major Japanese photographic manufactures. The last time I heard Cosina is the world's largest manufacturer of surveillance cameras as well as the last remaining Japanese manufacturer of classic lens focusing helicals. Likewise Cosina is one of the few manufacturers of optical glass.

Stephen

 

[Hunter S Thompson]

When was the last time you visited the 5 Cosina factories?

Cosina is partnered with the trademark holder for Voigtlander, partnered with Zeiss on the products they manufacture for Zeiss, and provides OEM engineering and parts for most if not all the major Japanese photographic manufactures. The last time I heard Cosina is the world's largest manufacturer of surveillance cameras as well as the last remaining Japanese manufacturer of classic lens focusing helicals. Likewise Cosina is one of the few manufacturers of optical glass.

Stephen

When was there last a Cosina branded camera or lens? I've seen some ancient Cosina SLR's but that must have been 30 year old gear. Anything more recent?

 

[Rayt]

When was there last a Cosina branded camera or lens? I've seen some ancient Cosina SLR's but that must have been 30 year old gear. Anything more recent?

I owned a Cosina branded Bessa L. It came out the same time as the L but for Japanese market. I have seen Cosina branded version of the Nikon FM10.