arunrajmohan
Established
The difference between the top and bottom lens is that the top one has a helical focussing mechanism and is mounted on a lens board. The bottom one is just the lens with the shutter and this lens has no focussing mechanism. The bottom lens has to me mounted on a lens board and that is mounted on a large format camera and focussing is done by moving the bellows. The one you would want to have is the top lens since you are after an alpa style camera with no bellows to adjust. Hope that helps unless you have already figured it out. I would love to see how your project progresses. Best,
Arun
Arun
Renzsu
Well-known
Ezzie, I was planning on making one adapter for the film back and one for a ground glass. That way I can check the framing (on a tripod of course) more accurately.
I did find the technical specs for this lens btw, so I know at what distance to put the film. It'll be a good startingpoint to work from as no doubt I will introduce some slight inaccuracies during fabrication.
To check the focus I was planning on using one of those magnifiers with a cone attached that I can put on the glass (since I don't have a 200mm lens and dslr lying around). I'll have to see if that's accurate enough of if I need to borrow a camera after all
But thanks for the workflow to check the focus, I was wondering what the best way would be to check that. I'm sure I will use your guide.
Arun, I guess I'm lucky then, that top lens is that one that should be on its way to me sometime this week. And, of course I will update this thread with any new development, hopefully until I got a nice working camera as the end result
I did find the technical specs for this lens btw, so I know at what distance to put the film. It'll be a good startingpoint to work from as no doubt I will introduce some slight inaccuracies during fabrication.
To check the focus I was planning on using one of those magnifiers with a cone attached that I can put on the glass (since I don't have a 200mm lens and dslr lying around). I'll have to see if that's accurate enough of if I need to borrow a camera after all
But thanks for the workflow to check the focus, I was wondering what the best way would be to check that. I'm sure I will use your guide.Arun, I guess I'm lucky then, that top lens is that one that should be on its way to me sometime this week. And, of course I will update this thread with any new development, hopefully until I got a nice working camera as the end result
Ezzie
E. D. Russell Roberts
Hi Renzsu
The lens I use is a 90mm Fuji. The papers stated it had a register of 99.1mm, so I started off at 102mm to be sure, and sanded down the lens box until about 99.2mm. Sample variations may occur. So don´t cut it too fine to begin with.
I get what you are thinking and why. However you will now have an extra source for error. Make absolutely sure the ground glass has the same plane as the film.
The lens I use is a 90mm Fuji. The papers stated it had a register of 99.1mm, so I started off at 102mm to be sure, and sanded down the lens box until about 99.2mm. Sample variations may occur. So don´t cut it too fine to begin with.
I get what you are thinking and why. However you will now have an extra source for error. Make absolutely sure the ground glass has the same plane as the film.
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Decagrog
Newbie
Hi all,
I'm the guy that made the 6x6 wooden camera, a friend of mine pointed me that post and I'm very happy to found here some flickr users and that the camera itself can be in some way inspiring.
When I've started with the idea to build it I've lurked around the web collecting a lot of homemade works and like Ezzie said I've also taken inspiration about the shape and the grip from his camera!
Renzsu you have a good piece of glass to start with, seem really a fine Schneider with a recent coating on the front element and the helical focus will save you a lot of extra work.
I'm glad also to discover for the first time that S shape Mamiya back...with a solid lock system maybe it can work also as a grip, looks interesting!
I'll surely keep to follow that thread since I'm actually searching for some parts in order to build a new camera, this time for myself.
I'll probably stick with a similar Super-angulon 65mm lens (but an older/used one and maybe the F/8 model cause I'm a little in a budget now... ) and this time want to try a 6x9 back (maybe the Horseman or that mamiya S model).
If by chance you have any questions about the camera feel free to ask, but I'm almost sure that I'll be the one to learn something new here
I'm the guy that made the 6x6 wooden camera, a friend of mine pointed me that post and I'm very happy to found here some flickr users and that the camera itself can be in some way inspiring.
When I've started with the idea to build it I've lurked around the web collecting a lot of homemade works and like Ezzie said I've also taken inspiration about the shape and the grip from his camera!
Renzsu you have a good piece of glass to start with, seem really a fine Schneider with a recent coating on the front element and the helical focus will save you a lot of extra work.
I'm glad also to discover for the first time that S shape Mamiya back...with a solid lock system maybe it can work also as a grip, looks interesting!
I'll surely keep to follow that thread since I'm actually searching for some parts in order to build a new camera, this time for myself.
I'll probably stick with a similar Super-angulon 65mm lens (but an older/used one and maybe the F/8 model cause I'm a little in a budget now... ) and this time want to try a 6x9 back (maybe the Horseman or that mamiya S model).
If by chance you have any questions about the camera feel free to ask, but I'm almost sure that I'll be the one to learn something new here
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kuzano
Veteran
I listed the Mamiya "S shape" Type III back. While these backs pop up with some regularity, they do not often have the appropriate shutter release cable.
I have seen the earlier backs which are the same except for the extension for the shutter cable, modified by adding a nice hardwood extension. The extension can be shaped for finger grips and drilled for a normal cable release to exit out the bottom.
Regarding the mount strength, the mounting mechanism is quite strong and will easily allow the back to be used as a hand hold.
As I mentioned, these backs are reputed to be among the best for film flatness and have been used on some very popular wide angle handheld cameras.
The "go to" person on the Mamiya and Polaroid Press camera systems is Tony Sansone in Florida. He has a website for the family Olive Oil business and has pages for the Mamiya's and Polaroid systems on that site. I've purchased brand new parts from him, as well as discussed his rebuild business on Mamiya Universals, backs and lenses.
Renzsu
Well-known
Guys, thanks for all the information and tips. Even though I might not use all the suggested options here, it's good to have them in case others want to attempt a similar project.
I have to say, it's very hard to sit here knowing the parts are in the mail, knowing I can't really do much before they arrive. I will post some drawings of what I will attempt to make as a test setup.
I do not plan to modify the lens board btw, ideally the camera will have exchangeable fronts for various lenses, but perhaps the real reason is that I might want to use the same lens in a different project later on. Just something I want to keep in mind so that I don't glue or bold these parts permanently onto something else.
I have to say, it's very hard to sit here knowing the parts are in the mail, knowing I can't really do much before they arrive. I will post some drawings of what I will attempt to make as a test setup.
I do not plan to modify the lens board btw, ideally the camera will have exchangeable fronts for various lenses, but perhaps the real reason is that I might want to use the same lens in a different project later on. Just something I want to keep in mind so that I don't glue or bold these parts permanently onto something else.
Ezzie
E. D. Russell Roberts
....
I do not plan to modify the lens board btw, ideally the camera will have exchangeable fronts for various lenses, but perhaps the real reason is that I might want to use the same lens in a different project later on. Just something I want to keep in mind so that I don't glue or bold these parts permanently onto something else.
Good idea. My thoughts too, as I will be building another camera during the winter I think. And reusing the same lens/lens-board is part of the parcel.
Oh, I attached the 6x6 mask on my 6x12 back the other day, as I missed being square (no serviceable lens for my Kowa at that point in time) and it worked a treat. Only downside is that the negs are 60x60, and not 56x56. Sounds good, but means you get absolutely no spacing between the negs, and they go all the way out to the edge too.
And example of 6x6 (12 on 120) on a 4x5 camera (talk about overkill!):
Renzsu
Well-known
That looks pretty sweet, insane dof! Did you process this photo digitally? I see some strange shadowy areas on the left of that haybale in the front.
Anyways, time for a little update.
I've received all my parts and already took all the necessary dimensions from them so that I can include them in my cad model. More on that in a later update.
Today I put some of that modeling foam in the lathe and made a big mess. The end result though works like a charm. It's a simple ring with a coat of matte black paint.
I put some tracing paper on one side and drew some crosses on the inside surface so that I can test the focus later this week.
Some pics, that hopefully are pretty self explanatory:
Anyways, time for a little update.
I've received all my parts and already took all the necessary dimensions from them so that I can include them in my cad model. More on that in a later update.
Today I put some of that modeling foam in the lathe and made a big mess. The end result though works like a charm. It's a simple ring with a coat of matte black paint.
I put some tracing paper on one side and drew some crosses on the inside surface so that I can test the focus later this week.
Some pics, that hopefully are pretty self explanatory:
Renzsu
Well-known
Quick question, does anyone know where to find one of those shutter releases that operate without a cable and can be mounted directly on the lens?
I also just received a tiny $2,- bubble level indicator that can be easily integrated in some kind of holder for the viewfinder, which I also still need to find.
Any idea what kind of equivalent focal length this lens will give me on 6x6/6x7?
I also just received a tiny $2,- bubble level indicator that can be easily integrated in some kind of holder for the viewfinder, which I also still need to find.
Any idea what kind of equivalent focal length this lens will give me on 6x6/6x7?
Ezzie
E. D. Russell Roberts
Those release buttons (for lack of a better word) I´ve seen on ebay.
With respects to equivalent focal length. Its difficult to give an exact figure, since 1:1 and 3:2 ratios don´t compare easily. What I do is compare along the one axis only (instead of diagonal). For medium format 120 film (compared to 135) the equivalent focal length can be considered as 24mm/56mm * MF lens focal length. Which is for a 65mm lens: 28mm. This is the vertical FOV for all 120 type ratios with that lens, and for 6x9 horizontally. Horizontal FOV for other 120 ratios will differ. Which is why I think in terms of vertical FOV only, as it stays constant.
As you might suspect, there is more than one answer to your question. Others will have other views.
With respects to equivalent focal length. Its difficult to give an exact figure, since 1:1 and 3:2 ratios don´t compare easily. What I do is compare along the one axis only (instead of diagonal). For medium format 120 film (compared to 135) the equivalent focal length can be considered as 24mm/56mm * MF lens focal length. Which is for a 65mm lens: 28mm. This is the vertical FOV for all 120 type ratios with that lens, and for 6x9 horizontally. Horizontal FOV for other 120 ratios will differ. Which is why I think in terms of vertical FOV only, as it stays constant.
As you might suspect, there is more than one answer to your question. Others will have other views.
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Steve M.
Veteran
Best of luck w/ your project, as you certainly have your work cut out for you. In the end, and I'm just being the voice of practicality here, I wonder if you'll be able to improve on the Koni/Graflex/Mamiye Press cameras or a simple folder. They have bright, coupled rangefinders and I really don't know how you can get something any smaller w/ that feature. As someone that shoots old folders a lot, I can tell you it is a bit tedious and slow getting your range, then transferring it back to the lens, then recomposing the shot, etc. A small Graflex camera would be an easy and simple solution too. If you really want small and fast it would end up w/ a fixed focus and just stop it down. This link has a lot of info, and most of it is for LF, but there's some great stuff here to look at leisurely.
http://home.online.no/~gjon/camerabuilders.htm
Just my 2 cents, but if I were after a wide angle MF camera and didn't want to go to a Hassy, I'd look at converting a preexisting folder by putting your lens on it, shortening the bellows and trying to modify it;s rangefinder so you'd have coupling. No need for accessory backs either, although you'd be using red window film advance.
http://home.online.no/~gjon/camerabuilders.htm
Just my 2 cents, but if I were after a wide angle MF camera and didn't want to go to a Hassy, I'd look at converting a preexisting folder by putting your lens on it, shortening the bellows and trying to modify it;s rangefinder so you'd have coupling. No need for accessory backs either, although you'd be using red window film advance.
Steve M.
Veteran
This may be of interest too.
http://home.comcast.net/~amitphotography/article neretta 5x4 ps slynch.htm
http://home.comcast.net/~amitphotography/article neretta 5x4 ps slynch.htm
Renzsu
Well-known
Steve, thanks for your feedback I do realize that hacking some other camera to do what I want might be easier, but I enjoy the design challenge in trying to make something myself. It might not have all the practicality of a rangefinder coupled camera, but it will be something that I put together and had final decision over on how it looks and works. For me that's where the fun is.
As for how I'm going to use this camera, I'm guessing mostly as a street P&S. So for me that means, set it and forget it, hyperfocal or zone focus shooting.
I'm going to have to figure out how to handheld something of this size more comfortably so that I can quickly access all the necessary controls and still be able to swing this around without it dropping from my hands (which would be nice).
Last but not least, it would be nice if this could look a bit like a production camera, something that looks nice besides working.
You are right though, I got my work cut out. I'm hoping I can keep the cost of cnc parts low, we'll see how that goes
I do realize that hacking some other camera to do what I want might be easier, but I enjoy the design challenge in trying to make something myself. It might not have all the practicality of a rangefinder coupled camera, but it will be something that I put together and had final decision over on how it looks and works. For me that's where the fun is.As for how I'm going to use this camera, I'm guessing mostly as a street P&S. So for me that means, set it and forget it, hyperfocal or zone focus shooting.
I'm going to have to figure out how to handheld something of this size more comfortably so that I can quickly access all the necessary controls and still be able to swing this around without it dropping from my hands (which would be nice).
Last but not least, it would be nice if this could look a bit like a production camera, something that looks nice besides working.
You are right though, I got my work cut out. I'm hoping I can keep the cost of cnc parts low, we'll see how that goes
Renzsu
Well-known
Time for more questions, this time a bit more practical. I need to know some places where I could order foam for lightseals (you know, the thin stuff that won't disintegrate over time).
Another thing is that I need a place where I can order some metric fasteners that don't look like they come straigt out of the hardware store. The kind you find on high-end audio equipment or kitchen hardware..
Other than that, I think I got a direction for the design, hopefully I will have some cad screenshots to post soon
Another thing is that I need a place where I can order some metric fasteners that don't look like they come straigt out of the hardware store. The kind you find on high-end audio equipment or kitchen hardware..
Other than that, I think I got a direction for the design, hopefully I will have some cad screenshots to post soon
hans voralberg
Veteran
Time for more questions, this time a bit more practical. I need to know some places where I could order foam for lightseals (you know, the thin stuff that won't disintegrate over time).
Another thing is that I need a place where I can order some metric fasteners that don't look like they come straigt out of the hardware store. The kind you find on high-end audio equipment or kitchen hardware..
Other than that, I think I got a direction for the design, hopefully I will have some cad screenshots to post soon
Here's the light seal foam! Linky
skibeerr
Well-known
For high quality foam google kameradokter Lives in Germany.
You should take a close look at the Cambo wide angle cameras for inspiration, Cambo also has a back that does 6X12 to 6X4,5
Seems a waste using that lovely lens just for 6X7.
BTW Rense your Fuji gw690 works like a charm, I am very happy with it.
Wim
You should take a close look at the Cambo wide angle cameras for inspiration, Cambo also has a back that does 6X12 to 6X4,5
Seems a waste using that lovely lens just for 6X7.
BTW Rense your Fuji gw690 works like a charm, I am very happy with it.
Wim
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Renzsu
Well-known
Hey guys, thanks for the tips on the lightseals!
Wim, glad to hear you're enjoying the camera! The more I look on flickr for images of my lens, the more I start thinking the same thing you're saying here. I mean, it's not like 6x7 is small to begin with, but 6x9 or 6x12 would be nice indeed. It does look like the camera will be a little bit bigger than I initially had thought, so I might just go 6x9...
The thing is, most of the 6x9 or 6x12 backs are for use on 4x5 cameras, so they've got these big flanges around them that I wouldn't actually need. They'd just end up making the camera unnecessarily big.
I did find some Horseman 6x9 backs that seem to be ok though, not too big:
Ah, options, options...
Wim, glad to hear you're enjoying the camera! The more I look on flickr for images of my lens, the more I start thinking the same thing you're saying here. I mean, it's not like 6x7 is small to begin with, but 6x9 or 6x12 would be nice indeed. It does look like the camera will be a little bit bigger than I initially had thought, so I might just go 6x9...
The thing is, most of the 6x9 or 6x12 backs are for use on 4x5 cameras, so they've got these big flanges around them that I wouldn't actually need. They'd just end up making the camera unnecessarily big.
I did find some Horseman 6x9 backs that seem to be ok though, not too big:
Ah, options, options...
Renzsu
Well-known
A little update: rough shape is in place, I'm still thinking about how to divide the various parts of the body. The idea is to use as little fastening hardware as possible, the ones that I will use should be hidden as much as possible.
The lens is wedged in between two plates, the back of the lens board rests against one plate, and in between the front plate and lens board there will be some foam to create a light tight seal.
The body parts themselves clamp around the front and back and are bolted to a core. I'm still trying to find a way to do this without a core, but the idea is that the only bolts I will need are to fix these body parts in the middle together. On the back there will be some fasteners to fix the clips in place that hold the film back, they will be recessed so nothing sticks out.
All parts are going to be machined from aluminium and anodised or polished, maybe finished with some wood paneling or leather.
I'm still debating how to implement the grip, preferably it will be wood and removable, probably clamped in between two metal plates that also provide a means to hold the cable release.
As you can see, I'm taking it easy with this thing, I just want something elegant and minimalistic. All the body parts will of course be properly finished with fillets, chamfers and whatnot.
Question, I'm looking to implement a strap that either goes all around the body, sort of what you see with old suitcases and bags, OR something that attaches with strap lugs.
Any idea where I can order some nice universal lug nuts that can hold a bit of weight? I've tried looking on ebay but nothing really popped up. I'm thinking maybe to get some replacement lugs from a Hasselblad dealer, but I'm hoping there's an easier way.
The lens is wedged in between two plates, the back of the lens board rests against one plate, and in between the front plate and lens board there will be some foam to create a light tight seal.
The body parts themselves clamp around the front and back and are bolted to a core. I'm still trying to find a way to do this without a core, but the idea is that the only bolts I will need are to fix these body parts in the middle together. On the back there will be some fasteners to fix the clips in place that hold the film back, they will be recessed so nothing sticks out.
All parts are going to be machined from aluminium and anodised or polished, maybe finished with some wood paneling or leather.
I'm still debating how to implement the grip, preferably it will be wood and removable, probably clamped in between two metal plates that also provide a means to hold the cable release.
As you can see, I'm taking it easy with this thing, I just want something elegant and minimalistic. All the body parts will of course be properly finished with fillets, chamfers and whatnot.
Question, I'm looking to implement a strap that either goes all around the body, sort of what you see with old suitcases and bags, OR something that attaches with strap lugs.
Any idea where I can order some nice universal lug nuts that can hold a bit of weight? I've tried looking on ebay but nothing really popped up. I'm thinking maybe to get some replacement lugs from a Hasselblad dealer, but I'm hoping there's an easier way.
ChrisN
Striving
Why not remove the lens/helical mount from the lensboard, and make the front panel of the body an integral lensboard? That would be lighter than having three layers up front. You would need to allow access room from the rear for attaching the helical mount, and the rear cell of the lens (which unscrews from the back of the shutter to allow mounting and dismounting the lens).
"Any idea where I can order some nice universal lug nuts that can hold a bit of weight? I've tried looking on ebay but nothing really popped up. I'm thinking maybe to get some replacement lugs from a Hasselblad dealer, but I'm hoping there's an easier way."
If you have a local machine shop they could turn some up quite easily from stainless steel bolts.
"Any idea where I can order some nice universal lug nuts that can hold a bit of weight? I've tried looking on ebay but nothing really popped up. I'm thinking maybe to get some replacement lugs from a Hasselblad dealer, but I'm hoping there's an easier way."
If you have a local machine shop they could turn some up quite easily from stainless steel bolts.
Renzsu
Well-known
Chris, thanks for your feedback! That's a good idea, it certainly would do good in the weight department. I wonder though if aluminium would be strong enough for such a short bit of thread. So far I haven't disassembled the lens from the board, I've read that it can be a bit of a fussy job.. I'll have to give it a go when I have enough time to really sit down with this thing