Do we ever leave the theatre?

SimonSawSunlight

SimonSawSunlight

Simon Fabel
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...or, better yet, can we even tell?

I think that for us photographers, media theories and for example Jean Baudrillard's theory of simulation are quite interesting.

So without any further elaboration: is there a factual global reality that we live in or is our reality just a medial construct produced by our very selves?
Also, do we control the media at our disposal or is it the media that define us as human beings?

Remember that 'media' includes more than just electronic and general journalistic devices, for example more basic means (or conditions) of communication, like air.

I'm aware that there is no ultimate answer to this question. ;)

(And please, feel free to recommend movies dealing with this field, they're kind of on both ends of the food chain here :D - I have already seen Matrix, Inception and 13th floor for example).
 
oh...i thought you were talking about all the 'drama' that can happen around here...concerning unreleased cameras, undiscovered photographers and such...;)
 
back alley said:
oh...i thought you were talking about all the 'drama' that can happen around here...concerning unreleased cameras, undiscovered photographers and such...;)
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oh, you thought I meant the amusing kind? :D

well, I think that drama is most certainly simulation and far from a neutral reality. ;)
 
I recommend "Simulacron-3" by Daniel F. Galouye (and the movie after the book: "Welt am Draht" by R. W. Fassbinder), as well as the books by Wlliam Gibson, Bruce Sterling and John Shirley.

All these show me, that there is no difference between inside and outside the theatre.
 
petronius said:
I recommend "Simulacron-3" by Daniel F. Galouye (and the movie after the book: "Welt am Draht" by R. W. Fassbinder), as well as the books by Wlliam Gibson, Bruce Sterling and John Shirley.

All these show me, that there is no difference between inside and outside the theatre.
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thank you =)
 
mto'brien said:
Yes. Both. My opinion, of course.

Jung worked to strip away the latter to uncover and better understand the former.
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I can imagine someone arguing, that this is impossible and therefore there is no such thing as reality, at least not for us as 'dimensionally limited', living, feeling beings. :bang:
 
SimonSawSunlight said:
neutral, natural reality.
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In using such terms, do you feel that they denote an abstract, or something that actually exists?


all of mankind / every single human being.
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I think anyone that has walked away from their TV or other media source, and actually gone out into the world and met real people, will be in a position to see that there is, at least some of the time, a difference between what the media promulgates and what is actually out there. And, in so doing, will further conclude that the term "factual global reality" does not denote an abstract, but denotes "the real world".

To put it another way, the term "factual global reality" either denotes a real-and-actual factual global reality, or is the product of some kind of "what's really going on?" conspiracy theory cooked up by someone who's entire experience of 'the world' is based on nothing but inputs from media sources.
 
SimonSawSunlight said:
I can imagine someone arguing, that this is impossible and therefore there is no such thing as reality, at least not for us as 'dimensionally limited', living, feeling beings. :bang:
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Good point. It's like matter/anti-matter obliteration.

I think Jung (and many, many other very smart people) was dogged by that very paradox: using a flawed system (human mind) to define an absolute (reality). In the end, you still have one absolute and one human's version of it.

So, I stand by my opinion, there are at least two, but we humans pile too much garbage of our own onto the absolute to ever see it clearly.
 
Outside of the comparison of a 'media reality' and a 'real reality', the notion of an absolute reality is an abstract. Reality, for me at least, is the constant stream of perceptions of which I am aware - visual, auditory, touch, emotional, etc. The classic philosophical example of this is the idea that one is a brain in a vat, being fed perceptions by an evil genius. Is there a real reality out there? Is every instant of my experience anythnig more than something that I.... experience?

Who knows?

Who cares?

The chances of me ever finding out are so remote, it hardly seems worth the bother of trying to work out "what's really going on".

Those readers who haven't fallen asleep yet are invited to pick one...

Solipsism.

Pragmatism.

Good luck! :)
 
Not a movie recommendation, but maybe you'd find Schopenhauers 'Die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung' (The World as Will and Representation) interesting. But careful: it's very strong stuff and may change you forever.

According to Schopenhauer (and Kant before) humans cannot know about the true nature of things; we all only have our Vorstellungen (images, concepts, ideas, perceptions) of any given thing. I think Schopenhauer would answer your question like this: yes, most likely there is something that might be called a 'factual global reality': the sum of aller Dinge an sich. But we cannot know it; we cannot access das Ding an sich.

Schopenhauer also probably was the greatest stylist of all philosophers, pure fun to read.
 
Simon, see: Bergmann's Persona, Alain Resnais's Providence, Haskell Wexler's Medium Cool. We never leave the theater AND the theater exists as much in our minds as it does in reality.

In this day and age, where "everyone" can be the "star" of their own drama on YouTube, Warhol's 15 minutes have boiled down to 15 seconds, McLuhan's media is the message has never been truer and Newton Minow's observation that television is a vast wasteland could be applied to a large swath of our culture.

Virtually everyone (that could also be read as: virtually every virtual one) on sites like RFF and elsewhere is "acting" all the time. If you doubt this (I know you don't), just look at your, mine and everyone else's avatar. More than any other species, we are fascinated with our reflection (literal and figurative both) in the mirror.

Life's short, so have fun with this. The mind is a flawed system? But of course. Why worry. Just run with whatcha got.
 
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