Tuolumne
Veteran
Sean Reid published his first mini-review of the M8.2 on Sunday night. He concludes:
" That said, three of the improvements in the new camera (the frame line masks, shutter and EV control/display) will indeed make the M8 significantly more useful to many professional and serious amateur photographers."
This seems just silly to me. How can anyone take such minor refinements, some of which are arguably useless (the EV control/display), and claim that they are "significantly" more useful? This is, after all, the digital era, and the M8 is a digital camera. The day when a manufacturer could change the metering on an SLR from center-weighted averaging to matrix (just as an example from the past) and claim a "significant" upgrade are long behind us. The camera upgrades ( as opposed to the new lenses) actually seem rather embarrassing. Almost like a joke from Saturday Night Live (during its hey-day). Look, Ma, I water-proofed the instructions but the camera still isn't water proof.
on Leica.
/T
" That said, three of the improvements in the new camera (the frame line masks, shutter and EV control/display) will indeed make the M8 significantly more useful to many professional and serious amateur photographers."
This seems just silly to me. How can anyone take such minor refinements, some of which are arguably useless (the EV control/display), and claim that they are "significantly" more useful? This is, after all, the digital era, and the M8 is a digital camera. The day when a manufacturer could change the metering on an SLR from center-weighted averaging to matrix (just as an example from the past) and claim a "significant" upgrade are long behind us. The camera upgrades ( as opposed to the new lenses) actually seem rather embarrassing. Almost like a joke from Saturday Night Live (during its hey-day). Look, Ma, I water-proofed the instructions but the camera still isn't water proof.
on Leica./T
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dng88
Dennis
Significant is relative to the subject. Given a mainly manual digital camera, any such improvement could be classified as significant. In fact, I hope it is a bit smaller (e.g. a IIIf size one with something like CV Model T external meter etc. not a brick like it now).
But I agree that other features like "live view" (for macro), high ISO performance and the D90 video could be more significant to drive the M8 to a different product.
However, as long as it stays in that price range, it is more like counting angel in a pin's head. Still, if its has those features, may be I can start my saving plans for it, hope that one can still easily find any financial firm left that does not collapse.
But I agree that other features like "live view" (for macro), high ISO performance and the D90 video could be more significant to drive the M8 to a different product.
However, as long as it stays in that price range, it is more like counting angel in a pin's head. Still, if its has those features, may be I can start my saving plans for it, hope that one can still easily find any financial firm left that does not collapse.
Dan States
Established
Seems like a really good set of upgrades to me...The camera sounds more like a Leica, it has proper vulcanite covering, the frame lines are more in line with what you will get on file and the shutter release is smoother. If it were not for the constant price increases I'd be banging the drum for Leica.
As it is they are the only camera company out there that actually charges MORE for every improvement they make. In the world of normal economics competition rules that out...
As it is they are the only camera company out there that actually charges MORE for every improvement they make. In the world of normal economics competition rules that out...
bradhusick
Member
If this is the best that Leica can do with TWO YEARS of engineering since the original M8, they are in trouble. I just wish someone else would produce cameras that use the wonderful Leica M glass I have so much invested in. I like my M8s, but I fear for them if they fall further and further behind the industry in image quality, noise handling, and image size.
infrequent
Well-known
yep..the M8.2 is what the M8 should have been.
JohnTF
Veteran
My M8 is in repair limbo, and I heard they are indeed going to return it, now if they put some of the 8.2 stuff in--- Ok, I will wake up in a bit.
Frame lines, any sensor improvement, HC cards-- well they have had a few years to work on it.
If they could upgrade a 1 A to a II, I would think they could upgrade the M8's to M8.2's?
J
Frame lines, any sensor improvement, HC cards-- well they have had a few years to work on it.
If they could upgrade a 1 A to a II, I would think they could upgrade the M8's to M8.2's?
J
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Well, the framelines were so far off that the camera was borderline useless. That alone is a significant correction (notice I didn't say improvement), but still doesn't justify the price they are asking for the M8.2.
The lack of proper weather sealing? Don't even get me started....
They better make a cheap M-mount digital to bring in the younger crowd, or they can just sit on the bowl watching the company flush down the toilet.
This would be a GREAT time for a fledging Chinese company to step in and make a good M-mount digital. Would put their name on the map and would probably sell a lot of cameras.
Leica is now in Wolkenkuckucksheim.
.
This would be a GREAT time for a fledging Chinese company to step in and make a good M-mount digital. Would put their name on the map and would probably sell a lot of cameras.
Leica is now in Wolkenkuckucksheim.
.
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Nh3
Well-known
The fact that a Chinese company has not yet come out with a ripoff of Leica is another depressing sign for the future of Leica.
scaryink
Member
Sounds like most of the posters here have fallen for the new model philosophy pushed by Nikon, Canon and the rest of the asian bandwagon. I think Leica's experiment in not chasing megapixels will be interesting to follow.
Lets face it, the quality of the final image from a viewer standpoint is not improving. It's the shot that counts. This is where the M8 appears to be very good. Its not noticed by the subject being filmed and this is its great attribute.
I have been taking some interesting photos since I purchased my camera last week. 10 megapixels with an easy uprez for larger prints is adequate. I enjoy the final printed image and I suspect that many here only view on a screen - which by the way is extremely low resolution.
Lets face it, the quality of the final image from a viewer standpoint is not improving. It's the shot that counts. This is where the M8 appears to be very good. Its not noticed by the subject being filmed and this is its great attribute.
I have been taking some interesting photos since I purchased my camera last week. 10 megapixels with an easy uprez for larger prints is adequate. I enjoy the final printed image and I suspect that many here only view on a screen - which by the way is extremely low resolution.
Speenth
Emmaiter
Spot on! That's exactly how I feel too. I regard my Leica lens collection as a lifetime investment. If someone such as Nikon, Canon, Olympus or Pentax can make a worthy camera to accept these lenses I'll be in heaven. While I love my M8, I'm under no illusions - its NOT the best thing since sliced bread ... unlike Leica lenses (which probably precede sliced bread anyway).
rickp
Well-known
unless there are surprise announcements coming at photokina, the m8 and 8.2 are alone in the digital rangefinder market. IMHO, those who like or need that type of camera would be wise to continue to support leica and offer constructive suggestions about what they would like to buy in future models and generations.
leica's success in this small portion of the overall digital camera market may eventually convince a cosina, zeiss or other (chinese?) manufacturer to get in the business. we'll all benefit from the competition.
greetings from hamburg
rick
leica's success in this small portion of the overall digital camera market may eventually convince a cosina, zeiss or other (chinese?) manufacturer to get in the business. we'll all benefit from the competition.
greetings from hamburg
rick
Frank1969
Member
I would love to have a rangefinder. However, I refuse to pay about 1.500 us$ That is what i reckon would be a fair price) for a camera of doubtful quality and the rest of the price for the brandname "Leica".
I do long for a Nikon fullframe rangefinder with Leica bayonet. Then we would have an excellent rangefinder from the day it is launched, with a price of about 3,000 euros less compared to the M8.2.
I do long for a Nikon fullframe rangefinder with Leica bayonet. Then we would have an excellent rangefinder from the day it is launched, with a price of about 3,000 euros less compared to the M8.2.
Ben Z
Veteran
I was a subscriber to Sean Reid's site (my subscription ran out and I haven't yet renewed it) and I found his reviews well-crafted. But in the end, what's significant to him might not necessarily be significant to everybody. And what delights him might not delight everybody.
I don't know whether my M8 has an uncharacteristically-quiet shutter, but in more than a year of use I haven't cursed at it once for being too indiscreet. I have used speeds above 1/4000 many times (Summilux wide open, outdoors) and I have used 1/250 for flash synch (daylight fill) many times. Neither of those will be possible with the M8.2. So far my shutter has been reliable. I may just get the LCD glass in order to buy another year of warranty on the existing shutter. I might have liked to have the motor separate from the shutter firing, if it was a free firmware thing. But as I've read, it isn't going to be available even with the M8 shutter upgrade. I guess I can't fault Leica for wanting to create demand for the 8.2.
The EV control I lump in with the S feature. I never use the M8 in AE mode. So neither feature is one I would ever use.
The framelines: As long as the framelines don't grow/shrink as the lens is focused, they will always be accurate at one distance only, and progressively less accurate at the rest. In a book I have, it says that the framelines were always set at their smallest, so nothing would ever get cut out of the shot that was seen in the finder. The same book says that the outer edge of the framelines corresponds to 2m. So I don't really see why they had to make the inside edge 2m. Personally, I would like the framelines set for 10m to infinity, since that's the kind of photos I take most often. But I'm not good at self-promotion, I don't have a website where people pay to read my opinions, and so Leica didn't ask me what distance to set the framelines to make me happy. Frankly I couldn't care less. Definitely the change doesn't register on my significant-meter.
If and when Leica produces a successor with significantly-improved imaging properties, they'll have my full attention. But it would have to be awfully significant, because the M8's imaging quality is already more than I need.
agianelo
Established
This I agree with!
willie_901
Veteran
It sounds like Mr Reid photographed his bowl-of-fruit-is-the-color-OK? test with IR filters installed this time.
Kudos.
Kudos.
Artorius
Caribbean Traveler
It's his opinion
It's his opinion
It's his opinion, and I respect that. In my opinion however, some things make sense and some don't. If for instance, I want to just grab a camera "just in case", a P&S is a logical choice. For me, a P&S will slip into a pocket. The M8.2 as it is being released, with all the Auto options, just doesn't fit into my idea of a P&S, and at $6000+, there is no way I would get one. When I want a grab camera, I use the D-LUX 3.
There are a couple of items I really like about the new .2. I myself cannot see any justification for this Leica 6K+ "point & shoot" in my future though. For someone else though, it might just fill the bill. IMHO
It's his opinion
It's his opinion, and I respect that. In my opinion however, some things make sense and some don't. If for instance, I want to just grab a camera "just in case", a P&S is a logical choice. For me, a P&S will slip into a pocket. The M8.2 as it is being released, with all the Auto options, just doesn't fit into my idea of a P&S, and at $6000+, there is no way I would get one. When I want a grab camera, I use the D-LUX 3.
There are a couple of items I really like about the new .2. I myself cannot see any justification for this Leica 6K+ "point & shoot" in my future though. For someone else though, it might just fill the bill. IMHO
swoop
Well-known
Isn't the M8 and the M8.2 the same camera with the new M8 upgrades, updated firmware, and a new paintjob? So if one has the M8 there's no point in grabbing an M8.2 when you can just hand it over to solms for $1500.
The only thing on the feature that seems an obvious difference is the framelines.
The only thing on the feature that seems an obvious difference is the framelines.
Tuolumne
Veteran
There is the "point and shoot" mode which every collector of a $6500 camera badly needs. You can't get that for your $1500 upgrade.
/T
/T
bradhusick
Member
Even if we don't need more megapixels, it would be nice to have a good image up through ISO 6400 like my D700. That's not impossible, so c'mon Leica, catch up with the times.