don't trust Paypal (rant and warning)

JoeFriday

JoeFriday

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I'm sure most of you already feel this way, but I thought I'd tell a personal story of how Paypal just told me "sorry that we screwed you, but tough sh*t"

I sold a non-camera item on ebay about a month ago.. the buyer seemed decent enough in his emails and made payment through Paypal a few days after the auction closed.. as soon as Paypal deposited the money, I had them move it to my bank account.. the next day I sent out the item, being the prompt ebay seller that I am.. a few days after that, the buyer put positive feedback on my ebay account and I did the same for him.. everybody is happy

a week later, after the money had already moved to my bank account, ebay put a hold on the buyer's account and reversed the payment.. taking money out of my Paypal account to do so

so now the buyer has my merchandise (valued at $300) without having paid anything.. and Paypal couldn't care less because they aren't out any money either (other than $9 for their cut of his non-existent payment).. I can't even put negative feedback on the guy's ebay account at this point

I called Paypal to see what I can do.. they said if I followed their 'Sellers Protection Plan' I would be covered.. meaning, I would have to provide shipping information (tracking number and signature).. but I don't have that information.. so they said "sorry, but you're screwed".. in those exact words

now is it just me, or doesn't it seem wrong that Paypal would give you the money.. then retract it after the fact? shouldn't they be required to verify the payment first, or be liable themselves if it turns out to be fraudulent?

bottom line: NEVER trust Paypal
 
Brett,

Clarify.
Why did they take the money back out of your account?
Did you ever hear from the buyer?
As for "Seller's Protection" - I never pay attention to that - because the relationship between Ebay and PayPal is akin (no pun intended) to that between Jerry Lee Lewis and his 13 year old cousin bride...

Dave
 
They shouldn't have been able to pull the money from your bank account.
And you shouldn't send an item til it's cleared in your bank account and you know the money's safe.

I had an equally awful experience with them (to a smaller monetary value). I sent a lens out - £45 to me. It clears into my account. Buyer receives item, claims it's faulty, paypal dispute begins. 4 weeks later I have my lens returned to me and it works without a single fault.

'You are obligated to refund this buyer, and only then can you appeal the decision made by paypal' What's that about?!

Well after that I click refund, to get this mess out of the way. NEVER REFUND WITHOUT THE MONEY DEPOSITED INTO PAYPAL!

I now have a crippled account and I cannot use paypal at ALL. I have to send them a cheque for more than the original negative balance (after their nifty little conversion to USD and back again). The cheque must be sent in USD to a building in IRELAND when I'm a English customer.


Their whole system is messed up and the sooner we have a safe alternative, the better.
 
If reciving payment through PayPal always amd I mean always (learned the hardway) ship with a service the provides online tracking and insurance. It costs more but if the buyer dose not want to pay the extra don't sell it. Unless you can prove shipping by tracking PayPal will side with the buyer. Taking payment by PayPal on ebay without track is a big no no. I would take paypal from a menber here with out tracking but as Frank's post showed even that could lead to trouble. John
 
flashover said:
Hey Dave I will have to check the google thing out. how dose that lens cap fit?
Click to expand...

Fitting like a glove - it's perfect for either the Elmar or Summaron I have for the IIIc - when I got back from Brazil I noted it in the mail and had totally forgot about it - then when I opened it I went "Oh yaaaaaaeeehh"

It's minty 🙂

Thanks,
Dave
 
Paypal didn't take the money out of my bank account.. they took the money out of my Paypal account.. which is essentially the same thing, since it was deducted from other monies I had in that account (from more recent sales)

and I agree with Dave.. Paypal treats their customers like idiots, forcing them to jump through unnecessary hoops, I believe in order to provide loopholes for themselves

I was really happy to see Google jump into the online payment arena.. they're the only ones that can give Paypal some serious competition.. and since Paypal has garnered an extremely negative image due to their arrogance and obfuscation, Google shouldn't have much of a problem picking up a significant percentage of their billion dollar income

the only problem with that scenario is that I think Google already has WAY too much control
 
JoeFriday said:
the only problem with that scenario is that I think Google already has WAY too much control
Click to expand...

That argument certainly can be made. But the reality is that to do anything in the modern world you have to do business with large companies. All you can do is choose who is the lesser evils to deal with. Mobil vs Shell, Apple vs Microsoft, Sun vs Dell... :angel:

I'd rather the folks at Google have some of the control that paypal and ebay currently have.

William
 
I lost an item in the post that I sent RECORDED delivery. Still no sign of compensation. Nor return of the item. I've even contacted Royal Mail about it and no joy. For this reason I send special delivery, and if anything go halve's with the buyer if they don't want to spend the £10 or something ridiculous it'll cost (it dramatically reduced my profits in a recent sale).

I won't mind Google getting my money rather than PayPal, but I severely doubt eBay will accept it as a payment method.
 
Same here

Same here

for anything of value. The only exception is if it's sold as-is, and prior to shipping, the buyer accepts that the seller is not responsible for damages during shipping. In that case I might go with default insurance, but would still track, and require delivery confirmation. I pay it even if the buyer doesn't want to, since as the seller, it's my responsibility to get the goods to the buyer in the condition stated, and in the timeframe I've promised, after receiving their funds in good faith.


Didier said:
Seller rule #1: never ship uninsuired/unregistered. Never. Paypal is one reason, and there are others - like dishonest buyers or dishonest post employees.
Didier
Click to expand...
 
ampguy said:
for anything of value. The only exception is if it's sold as-is, and prior to shipping, the buyer accepts that the seller is not responsible for damages during shipping. In that case I might go with default insurance, but would still track, and require delivery confirmation. I pay it even if the buyer doesn't want to, since as the seller, it's my responsibility to get the goods to the buyer in the condition stated, and in the timeframe I've promised, after receiving their funds in good faith.
Click to expand...


Man, I am SO biting my tongue!
 
ywenz, if you had as much stress as any of paypal's dissatisfied users, you'd realise why the title of the thread is so fitting 🙂
 
Ash: Why so much grieve? I like paypal for the fact that I can pay using my credit card and if any issue occurs where I don't receive my item, I can call my CC company and get the charge refunded..
 
ywenz said:
Ash: Why so much grieve? I like paypal for the fact that I can pay using my credit card and if any issue occurs where I don't receive my item, I can call my CC company and get the charge refunded..
Click to expand...

yes exactly, for a buyer it is brilliant. read my previous posts - soon as you become the seller and there is a problem, hell breaks loose
 
JoeFriday said:
I'm sure most of you already feel this way, but I thought I'd tell a personal story of how Paypal just told me "sorry that we screwed you, but tough sh*t"

I sold a non-camera item on ebay about a month ago.. the buyer seemed decent enough in his emails and made payment through Paypal a few days after the auction closed.. as soon as Paypal deposited the money, I had them move it to my bank account.. the next day I sent out the item, being the prompt ebay seller that I am.. a few days after that, the buyer put positive feedback on my ebay account and I did the same for him.. everybody is happy

a week later, after the money had already moved to my bank account, ebay put a hold on the buyer's account and reversed the payment.. taking money out of my Paypal account to do so

so now the buyer has my merchandise (valued at $300) without having paid anything.. and Paypal couldn't care less because they aren't out any money either (other than $9 for their cut of his non-existent payment).. I can't even put negative feedback on the guy's ebay account at this point

I called Paypal to see what I can do.. they said if I followed their 'Sellers Protection Plan' I would be covered.. meaning, I would have to provide shipping information (tracking number and signature).. but I don't have that information.. so they said "sorry, but you're screwed".. in those exact words

now is it just me, or doesn't it seem wrong that Paypal would give you the money.. then retract it after the fact? shouldn't they be required to verify the payment first, or be liable themselves if it turns out to be fraudulent?

bottom line: NEVER trust Paypal
Click to expand...

eBay "buyer protection" works by taking loses out of the hide of the seller. Anyone who has sold enough on eBay learns this eventually. The horror stories are endless. The way to protect yourself is to purchase delivery confirmation (about 50 cents) and if the item is expensive: insurance. Make the buyer pay for his supposed "protection".
 
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