Down to one 35mm lens, but which one.

[Ko.Fe.]

...I'm a B&W guy, final image can go all over the place depending on the processing. V3 would give you a lot of wiggle room for contrast adjustment.

I forgot to mention in my initial post, what I'm into bw for 99% on M4-2 and mostly printing, not scanning of negatives.
Half-a-year I'm pushing 400 @1600 and it gives me extra contrast and another half-a-year I'm using contrast filters and rate 400 film as 200.

 

[coelacanth]

I forgot to mention in my initial post, what I'm into bw for 99% on M4-2 and mostly printing, not scanning of negatives.
Half-a-year I'm pushing 400 @1600 and it gives me extra contrast and another half-a-year I'm using contrast filters and rate 400 film as 200.

I did one year 2 stop push rule to myself some years ago. Well, If you are pushing, that's anther reason to go with lower contrast lens to begin with so you have more freedom in post/darkroom. Just want to say that no way Cron v3 is a flat lens. However you CAN go that side if you want to make 40s-50s style "gray" prints. 😉 I've never had the pleasure of owning pre-APSH Lux 35 so I can't comment on that lens, but my personal pick from your final candidates stays the same: Cron v3 for controllable contrast, shorter minimum focus distance and easy mounting of filters. But yes, I love The Summaron (people say it's same/similar rendering to Cron v1 minus of course f2.0) if you don't mind me mudding up your decision making.

 

[pechelman]

another one here that enjoys the summaron 2.8. While I'm not sure it would be my one and only lens, i've made it my one and only 35mm.

Coelacanth give an excellent and concise description of the differences and traits of each. For me it came down to a handful of things;

- Smaller front element and deeply recessed nature eliminates need for a hood. Contributes to the overall small\lightweight package
- Min f2.8 aperture allows me to shoot wide open to get that classic character and not have to worry, usually, about needing ND filters. Try that with a summilux 😉 Of course, it's not as fast come night.
- Excellent sharpness when stopped down, largely indistinguishable from the 'crons.
- Better distortion than the other glass
- No focus shift compared to some lenses (bigger deal to some than others)

also, in general, I really like full stop aperture settings of the older lenses. Half-stops are OK but third stops are just silly to me.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

2.8 as maximum aperture is too slow even with pushing @1600 for me, because I use it with fast shutter speeds. f2 is the edge for one and only lens on my film M. And I don't want chrome lens on black camera.

 

[kiemchacsu]

Down to one 35mm lens, but which one.

I swapped my cron iv with the summaron 2.8 few months ago. I admit that the 2.8 is not bad but my gut feeling always tells me that The cron iv is -the- best.
Finally I just managed to swap the lens back. Guess what? I feel So released.
Now, I swear that I never part the cron iv and m2 again.

 

[Chromacomaphoto]

2.8 as maximum aperture is too slow even with pushing @1600 for me, because I use it with fast shutter speeds. f2 is the edge for one and only lens on my film M. And I don't want chrome lens on black camera.

It's true, 2.8 is a medium speed lens really. Even at a pushed 1600, it ain't that fast in terms of available shutter speeds. I am ok with that but I understand that you want a faster lens and you are not considering the Summaron again at his point. It sure makes pretty pics though, on that I think most agree.

 

[David Hughes]

A general comment...

A general comment...

It's true, 2.8 is a medium speed lens really. Even at a pushed 1600, it ain't that fast in terms of available shutter speeds. I am ok with that but I understand that you want a faster lens and you are not considering the Summaron again at his point. It sure makes pretty pics though, on that I think most agree.

Using the funny 16 rule that means a top shutter speed of 1/51,800th of a second outdoors to use f/2.8 and a top shutter speed of slightly faster than 1/3,000 with "slow" 100 ASA/ISO film.

Using the rule of thumb of two stops in for best quality then a shutter speed of nearly 13,000th is needed outdoors. Or the expense of two bodies to use normal film for normal photo's.

As I see it, it depends on what sort of photography you do and so on.

FWIW, fast lenses can be a nuisance as they don't perform as evenly across the range of apertures as I would wish. Equally a lot are poor wide open. So, roughly speaking, once you get to f/2 and wider you have to pay out a lot of cash to get a decent lens. Worse still, using a ND filter to control the light on your super fast lens degrades the thing again.

Lastly, if we are talking about just one 35mm lens then I imagine it's going to be used for street and landscapes and here the overall quality from an affordable Leica f/2.8 is needed and usable. And the quality you get from a "slow" film too...

So nothing against fast lenses and fast, pushed film sensitivity but you have to live with it all the time and going for something out of the ordinary might just restrict you a lot of the time.

Regards, David

 

[k__43]

V3 Cron or Pre-ASPH Lux? That should be easy to decide, right? No? I'm not the biggest friend of the wide open look of a pre-asph lux so I'd buy the Cron and save a lot of money. Although the extra stop just for backup and portraits maybe .. mhhhhm.

So judging from the prices I see in Germany the V3 is not much cheaper than a bargain to average privately sold V4 cron and the regular store price of a V4 cron is not much lower than the pre-asph Lux. but the span from the V3 to the lux is wide. I'd even argue that for the price of the pre-asph Lux you might even get a asph cron.

I own a V4 and a Cron-C 40. The V4 is just better! I still love the 40 but as my only lens I'd pick the V4. The V4 I own was in a C rated state from Meister-Camera .. means worn out wide paint, dust inside and loose lens cell. Which can be fixed by loosing some lubrication on that thread and a drop of loctite. The white engravings can be repainted and the bits of dust don't matter for picture taking.

 

[ferider]

another one here that enjoys the summaron 2.8. While I'm not sure it would be my one and only lens, i've made it my one and only 35mm ....

Funny, all this thread is doing is me wanting to try out the Summaron on the 240. RFF is evil.

Roland.

 

[pechelman]

Funny, all this thread is doing is me wanting to try out the Summaron on the 240. RFF is evil.

Roland.

it's really a great lens.
I hear lots of people say it's just not good for color, has mediocre contrast, isnt suitable for modern "real" photograph or other somewhat ridiculous things, but to me, it's the epitome of an excellent RF lens. (especially with the infinity lock removed) I've also not experienced any of the issues others claim.

Every once in a while I get tempted by some other 35, recently it was the new 1.7 ultron, but they just dont look as pleasing to me as the summaron or offer the same incredibly small\light\no vf blockage\fit in a coat pocket (even with an m240) that it does. Basically for me, it turns my m240 into sort of an x100. To me both of the lenses share a bit of character, minus the haze of the 23mm at close focal distances and big apertures. I also find the summaron\m240 combo a good bit sharper.


either way, sorry for the semi-derail of this thread.
If the summaron is not fast enough for the OP, neither will the summarit/f2.5 that was originally listed as an option. The summicron suggestions seem to be well suited for a little faster. Next I'd look at the Ultron I mentioned above if a more modern rendering is preferred and you really need the speed.

Since it does sound like cost is an issue, rather than the Lux, FLE, summicron, or even new ultron (surprisingly expensive), i might list the Nokton 1.4 MC as a third option. I've seen many excellent deals on them lately, with the hoods included. Sure, it has some distortion, isnt the sharpest (but is sharp enough imo), and compares favorably I find to the other Lux 35's. Since ultimate sharpness and such doesnt sound like that is too important for the OP in a 35mm lens, the Nokton 1.4 is a great handling, a bit classic, small, modern coated, lens that wont break the bank or block too much of the VF and could work reasonably well as the only 35mm so long as you're not afraid to shoot stopped down or are concerned with dead flat\straight lines.


edit: and while I have no first or even third hand experience with the lens, I feel like this is the point in the discussion of 35mm lenses where someone mentions the 40mm summicron. (edit2: and I see someone already suggested it in post #6)

 

[ferider]

it's really a great lens.
I hear lots of people say it's just not good for color, has mediocre contrast, isnt suitable for modern "real" photograph or other somewhat ridiculous things, but to me, it's the epitome of an excellent RF lens. (especially with the infinity lock removed) I've also not experienced any of the issues others claim.

Well, I found one and am waiting for the mail .... my absolute favorite lens on the 240 is the rigid Summicron, I'm always surprised at photos that it takes. I'm hoping the Summaron is a good complement for it. Luckily I found a copy (M2 version, min. focus 0.7m) in Germany at a decent price. I remember the Summarons being traded here for US 300 or thereabouts. Now typical prices for a clean copy (US 800 and up) are crazy compared to then.

OP: sorry for the thread distraction.

Roland.

 

[Chromacomaphoto]

Using the funny 16 rule that means a top shutter speed of 1/51,800th of a second outdoors to use f/2.8 and a top shutter speed of slightly faster than 1/3,000 with "slow" 100 ASA/ISO film.

Using the rule of thumb of two stops in for best quality then a shutter speed of nearly 13,000th is needed outdoors. Or the expense of two bodies to use normal film for normal photo's.

As I see it, it depends on what sort of photography you do and so on.

FWIW, fast lenses can be a nuisance as they don't perform as evenly across the range of apertures as I would wish. Equally a lot are poor wide open. So, roughly speaking, once you get to f/2 and wider you have to pay out a lot of cash to get a decent lens. Worse still, using a ND filter to control the light on your super fast lens degrades the thing again.

Lastly, if we are talking about just one 35mm lens then I imagine it's going to be used for street and landscapes and here the overall quality from an affordable Leica f/2.8 is needed and usable. And the quality you get from a "slow" film too...

So nothing against fast lenses and fast, pushed film sensitivity but you have to live with it all the time and going for something out of the ordinary might just restrict you a lot of the time.

Regards, David

I quite agree with you on the whole David which is why I went for the Summaron in the end myself despite having previously had the pre-asph 'Lux. I generally shoot mainly street with a rangefinder in a stupidly bright and sunny country anyway, so it's perfect for me. Took me a while to stop wanting for more speed and higher priced stuff and to actually step back and be honest with myself about what I do with a given lens once I have it. You make good points and with lenses, like everything else in life, there are always trade offs to be considered.

 

[Chromacomaphoto]

V3 Cron or Pre-ASPH Lux? That should be easy to decide, right? No? I'm not the biggest friend of the wide open look of a pre-asph lux so I'd buy the Cron and save a lot of money. Although the extra stop just for backup and portraits maybe .. mhhhhm.

So judging from the prices I see in Germany the V3 is not much cheaper than a bargain to average privately sold V4 cron and the regular store price of a V4 cron is not much lower than the pre-asph Lux. but the span from the V3 to the lux is wide. I'd even argue that for the price of the pre-asph Lux you might even get a asph cron.

I own a V4 and a Cron-C 40. The V4 is just better! I still love the 40 but as my only lens I'd pick the V4. The V4 I own was in a C rated state from Meister-Camera .. means worn out wide paint, dust inside and loose lens cell. Which can be fixed by loosing some lubrication on that thread and a drop of loctite. The white engravings can be repainted and the bits of dust don't matter for picture taking.

Similar story in Thailand, a nice V4 'Cron and a nice 35' pre-asph are pretty close price wise so you'd have to think long and hard. Got my Brass and chrome 'Ron 2.8 for a third of the price of either of them, and I like its output just as much, colour me happy.

Sorry for the way this thread refuses to shift away from the Summaron talk even though the OP doesn't want one....my apologies and maybe we can get it back on track now (although I feel somebody who is expecting something in the mail from Germany any day now might find it difficult to not comment further, haha)

 

[Chromacomaphoto]

Well, I found one and am waiting for the mail .... my absolute favorite lens on the 240 is the rigid Summicron, I'm always surprised at photos that it takes. I'm hoping the Summaron is a good complement for it. Luckily I found a copy (M2 version, min. focus 0.7m) in Germany at a decent price. I remember the Summarons being traded here for US 300 or thereabouts. Now typical prices for a clean copy (US 800 and up) are crazy compared to then.

OP: sorry for the thread distraction.

Roland.

I think the price rises are not only due to the rep of this lens being more widely known these days but also the adapters that make all Leica legacy glass plug and play with newer digital cameras. There are people snapping up M glass now that would never have dreamed of buying (or even knew about) it just a few years ago. They are not making any more of the classic lenses, it's a good time for buying them and KEEPING them.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Anyone wants Elmar-M 50 2.8 E39 for low price? Here is one in classifieds.
I don't want lens without focus tab.
Ultrons are nice on prints, just sold one. I mean lens, it doesn't have tab.
I like tabs so much I like v2 of 35 Cron, because it has TWO tabs!

 

[skibeerr]

Konstantin,

make use of the hurting australian dollar. Same value as Canadian but no Yanks sucking the used market dry.

Check out Ebay au and Gumtree Au

 

[bobby_novatron]

Jupiter-12 35mm F2.8 in LTM! Only 28 rubles! Cheap!

Just kidding. 🙂

 

[Ko.Fe.]

It's OK, Bobby. 🙂 I've had one and it is interesting lens optically. Just how it is build makes it not so easy lens to use. It does it best with the hood, but it is tricky to change apertures on this lens even without hood. And forget about filters. It worked fine on FED-2 after I bend the RF arm, but no idea how to align it for M standard to keep it sharp.

I have to admit, after week of messaging and calling to sellers and getting nothing in return, getting late on lenses in good condition and reasonable price I gave up on finding of Canadian Cron or Lux without overpaying. This is not how I want to spend my time and my limited amount of money. For these prices (1200-1700 USD) where are new lenses available...

 

[David Hughes]

I think the price rises are not only due to the rep of this lens being more widely known these days but also the adapters that make all Leica legacy glass plug and play with newer digital cameras. There are people snapping up M glass now that would never have dreamed of buying (or even knew about) it just a few years ago. They are not making any more of the classic lenses, it's a good time for buying them and KEEPING them.

Hi,

It's happening with all lenses and all types. Go to ebay and look at the number of camera bodies without a lens then count the few with a lens...

Regards David

 

[bobby_novatron]

It's OK, Bobby. 🙂 I've had one and it is interesting lens optically. Just how it is build makes it not so easy lens to use. It does it best with the hood, but it is tricky to change apertures on this lens even without hood. And forget about filters. It worked fine on FED-2 after I bend the RF arm, but no idea how to align it for M standard to keep it sharp.

I have to admit, after week of messaging and calling to sellers and getting nothing in return, getting late on lenses in good condition and reasonable price I gave up on finding of Canadian Cron or Lux without overpaying. This is not how I want to spend my time and my limited amount of money. For these prices (1200-1700 USD) where are new lenses available...

I'm glad you found my post humorous ... I was in a strange mood so I thought it was funny at the time.

I also have a J-12, and I agree with you 100%. It's an interesting lens, but not for a lens I use often. It is very tricky to change the F-stop and the lens has a strange bokeh because of the 5-blade aperture.

Good luck with your lens search, sometimes it takes lots of patience to find the right lens at the right time.