EcoLeica
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FanMan
Established
These are only pictures of poor quality with the attempt to make other people look like fools - I don't like that.
EcoLeica
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ouch rather harsh mate! oh well any criticisms are good. How are they poor quality ay i ask? By the way this isnt an attempt to make people look like fools but rather to show what NZ booze culture is really like
doitashimash1te
Well-known
These shots are not bad at all. I don't agree with FanMan in that you "attempt to make other people look like fools" - if these people look like fools (and I don't say they do) then who is to blame? The photographer? Oh come on!
Nice documentary photography. Does indeed remind me of Weegee. Except, he got closer, if my memory serves me well.
Nice documentary photography. Does indeed remind me of Weegee. Except, he got closer, if my memory serves me well.
EcoLeica
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thankyou very much for your kind words....yes weegee generally got much closer but it was a more innocent time in terms of photography. Trust me the police didnt look too happy when i did the first shot
oftheherd
Veteran
One thing I remembe from my time in Vietnam was New Zealander's (and Australians) fondness for drinking beer, and playing darts. Don't remember so much acting foolish, but then unless you were in one of the big cities, you wouldn't want to get too drunk. It wasn't considered safe.
As to you photos, three isn't much to go on with only three. Getting closer will help sometimes, but not always. Sometimes you need to show things in context. I think you have a good start. I don't think they are poorly composed nor exposed. If people are acting foolish and you show it, so be it. People who are drunk often do act in foolish ways. You are simply documenting their acts. You may be on to something, just be careful. Drunks often are more likely to become violent.
As to you photos, three isn't much to go on with only three. Getting closer will help sometimes, but not always. Sometimes you need to show things in context. I think you have a good start. I don't think they are poorly composed nor exposed. If people are acting foolish and you show it, so be it. People who are drunk often do act in foolish ways. You are simply documenting their acts. You may be on to something, just be careful. Drunks often are more likely to become violent.
ghostganz
Member
My first thought was that they reminded me of Weegee, before reading the full text of your post. I like them, very raw and direct. (Show them larger though!)
From a recent visit in Bangkok I got the impression that the Australians were the heavy drinkers, but I realize now that I wouldn't know how to tell them from New Zealanders.
From a recent visit in Bangkok I got the impression that the Australians were the heavy drinkers, but I realize now that I wouldn't know how to tell them from New Zealanders.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
the same type of sad scenes can be photographed in most places around the world.
I agree. A stroll down the streets in New Haven, CT any Friday night will prove that. A college town with lots of kids doing what many of us did when we were their age.
I think the photos here show the end result of drunkenness. There are a lot of interesting things to photograph that drunk folks do before they get this far down the line.
foto_fool
Well-known
My first thought was also of Weegee. Compositionally the first shot works best - there is too much empty pavement in the next two. Contextually, the series succeeds as documentary - "here are drunk people on the street" - but I don't get anything more. I am not repulsed or attracted, nor engaged by the content. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
literiter
Well-known
I think these, and pictures like this serve a purpose, in that they describe part of the human condition for others to consider. The human condition is not alway pleasant.
I can see that gathering images like this would be difficult but you are doing it.
I can see that gathering images like this would be difficult but you are doing it.
thomasw_
Well-known
I like the documentary style and the topic you have chosen. Documenting the effects of over-indulgence is not without a purpose. I agree, though, in certain frames, that getting slightly closer or using a longer focal length would've been more poignant in rendering the scene. I disagree with Fanman completely; if your subjects look like fools in public, then that was their own doing. What is wrong with documenting that aspect of over-indulgence in public?
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Yes, they do remind me of Weegee. Remember, that Weegee photographed the crowd as well as the incident.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I think this could turn into something really good. Try harder to capture the brutality of the moment--the emotions that flow out when people are incapacitated. Make it humane, rather than voyeuristic. get a longer lens.
If you really feel for these people, it should show in the photos.
If you really feel for these people, it should show in the photos.
FanMan
Established
sorry for being harsh - I did not want to be unpolite. And I have no answer to the question „what would make the photos to good photos?“.
When you see a terrible car accident while driving by with your car - would it be ok to stop and to take photos while the injured are taken out of their wrecked cars? What could be the answer if the policemen ask „hey man with camera, what are you doing?“ - would it make sense to say „no problem, Sir, I am only playing to be Weegee“?
Some time ago I read an interesting statement by Patrick Zachmann who got shot while taking photographs: „When you are down, you reverse your relationship with people you photograph. There were two photographers, one ... who left and the Reuters photographer. He helped me, but first he shot a picture of me. That is very, very weird.“ It seems that the point of view is important - and that it is sometimes important to step aside and to think about the own point of view. For sure there is a limit to everything. For me it would be the answer to the question: „would I have taken and posted the 1st photo that you have posted if the person shown was my father/brother/son? Would I have taken and posted the 2nd photo if the person shown was my mother/sister/daughter?
Since my ciritique is not constructive and since I do not answer your question I prefer to withdraw my 1st comment. It was only my very personal point of view.
Michael
When you see a terrible car accident while driving by with your car - would it be ok to stop and to take photos while the injured are taken out of their wrecked cars? What could be the answer if the policemen ask „hey man with camera, what are you doing?“ - would it make sense to say „no problem, Sir, I am only playing to be Weegee“?
Some time ago I read an interesting statement by Patrick Zachmann who got shot while taking photographs: „When you are down, you reverse your relationship with people you photograph. There were two photographers, one ... who left and the Reuters photographer. He helped me, but first he shot a picture of me. That is very, very weird.“ It seems that the point of view is important - and that it is sometimes important to step aside and to think about the own point of view. For sure there is a limit to everything. For me it would be the answer to the question: „would I have taken and posted the 1st photo that you have posted if the person shown was my father/brother/son? Would I have taken and posted the 2nd photo if the person shown was my mother/sister/daughter?
Since my ciritique is not constructive and since I do not answer your question I prefer to withdraw my 1st comment. It was only my very personal point of view.
Michael
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I think that photographing an accident victim is very, very different from photographing a drunk person. An accident victim is helpless, and possibly in mortal danger. Their vulnerability is likely inadvertent and very deep. Drunk people have chosen to be drunk, in public. And if this brings them someplace emotionally interesting, and you're there with your camera, I think they're fair game.
Like I said on the sleeping-people thread, though, if you're asked to stop, or asked not to use that particular photo, then you have to oblige.
I'm reminded of those poor sad people on the cop shows...every single one of them signs a release form letting the show use the footage.
Like I said on the sleeping-people thread, though, if you're asked to stop, or asked not to use that particular photo, then you have to oblige.
I'm reminded of those poor sad people on the cop shows...every single one of them signs a release form letting the show use the footage.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I'm a bit with Michael in that these photographs seem voyeuristic to me. But then, I was also struck by their Weegeesque quality. To be quite honest, I'm not in the praising mood when it comes to these, and photos of sleeping people.
However, I'd be open to see a reinterpretation of the subject; how can you portrait a drunkard and show your understanding of the situation? Let's speak in practical terms: a longer lens? Color film? Slower flash sync speed? The flash light on these ones is as harsh as that of the Speedgraphic used by Fellig... and adds to a weird, old fashioned look (in addition to the square size).
Again, I'm on the fence here... I probably wouldn't have photographed these people to begin with, but you may be onto something new, daring and interesting nonetheless.
However, I'd be open to see a reinterpretation of the subject; how can you portrait a drunkard and show your understanding of the situation? Let's speak in practical terms: a longer lens? Color film? Slower flash sync speed? The flash light on these ones is as harsh as that of the Speedgraphic used by Fellig... and adds to a weird, old fashioned look (in addition to the square size).
Again, I'm on the fence here... I probably wouldn't have photographed these people to begin with, but you may be onto something new, daring and interesting nonetheless.
Nando
Well-known
Around 10 years ago, I used to drink quite a bit, not everyday, but going out with some buddies to a bar to see a hockey game or a football match became an excuse to binge on alcohol. This would occur almost on a weekly basis. An embarrassing photograph taken of me while I was drunk by one of my friends was enough to get me to stop doing this. I still drink a glass of wine with every meal and also the occasional beer but I don't binge on alcohol on a regular basis anymore. I think that photographs like these can serve a good purpose.
There is an air of loneliness and shame in these photographs. The drunk subjects do not have any friends coming to their aid.
There is an air of loneliness and shame in these photographs. The drunk subjects do not have any friends coming to their aid.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Let's not foget that sometimes choice of a self inflicted condition is easy for non alcoholics to pass judgement on. We assume that these people are doing this to themselves because they can and not because they may be trying to escape from some other type of hell!
I come from a family that was crippled by an alcoholic parent so the word 'drunk' when used as a noun or adjective for that matter worries me a little ... it has a derogatory flavour and when using it to describe a person in this condition you may in fact be dealing with someone who has a much more deep seated issue!
I think the photos are fine incidentally ... but personally I'd change the thread title!
I come from a family that was crippled by an alcoholic parent so the word 'drunk' when used as a noun or adjective for that matter worries me a little ... it has a derogatory flavour and when using it to describe a person in this condition you may in fact be dealing with someone who has a much more deep seated issue!
I think the photos are fine incidentally ... but personally I'd change the thread title!
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
You're right Pitxu ... I wasn't suggesting the original poster had used it as a noun but it does tend to get used that way a lot! I suspect there are a lot of people out there like you and I who have had their lives severely affected by alcohol ... I note that the Australian Government is keen to embark on a campaign to place warnings on alcohol packaging and labels ... similar to what we have on tobacco currently!