Dynamic Range

[ray_g]

This is off the roll I processed today. I thought I would share this story:

I took several shots of this same scene with a Nikon DSLR. It was an exposure nightmare. I was bracketing, using the spotmeter, checking histograms on the LCD. In the end, it was a choice between blown-out highlights or blocked up shadows. I tried to save it on Photoshop with masks and layers, but still ended up very frustrated.

The same time the following afternoon, the kids were at it again (yes, I know, they have JUST discovered Monopoly 🙂 ). I remembered that I had a few more shots left to finish the roll of Agfa APX-100 in my Leica M3. I took an incident reading off my daughter's face, and fired away.

This is not a criticism of digital. I guess it was a reminder, to me, of why I still love film for black and white. Especially APX and Rodinal. 😉

 

[back alley]

that's a gorgeous looking photo ray.

 

[sirius]

Yes, I think it's a lovely photo too. I love the blacks and the shapes that the whites draw. There's something to be said for simplicity, hey?

 

[kshapero]

well said and well taken.

 

[rcoder]

It's a lovely capture, and a perfect example of why my D70 has been sitting in the closet since i picked up a $15 Yashica Electro 35 and some bulk HP5. I'm jealous of how clean the shot is, though. I'm new to developing, and all my negatives still have a certain...shall we say, rustic look to them.

 

[f8&go]

that's a gorgeous looking photo ray.

+1!

Perfect translation of exquisite light.
Beautiful kids, too.

 

[smileyguy]

Nice job! I "discovered" b&w film last year and haven't looked back. I scan all my stuff into my mac and work some of it in PSCS2 but nothing can touch real b&w film in my opinion.

This is a beautiful photo of a great family moment. It's simple and I like that. Kids at play and not paying attention to you but in their own world. Thanks for the inspiration.

 

[ray_g]

Thanks for the comments. 🙂

There's more to the story. They were asking to "see the pictures" thinking there was an LCD somewhere in back of the camera. "You want to see the pictures?" --- So I let them mix the rodinal, and do the inversions, and pour in the stopbath and fixer! We hung the negs, and later on scanned them. They loved it!

Of course, I warned them about handling the chemicals and how they can be dangerous if mishandled.

As soon as my wife came home, they told her all about what they did... and how Daddy let them "mix dangerous chemicals.":angel:

 

[dexdog]

great shot, Ray.

I have played around with B & W with my Canon 20D, but the results are not nearly as satisfying as film for B & W in my opinion. My fave is Kodak 400BCN (I do not develop my film), usually with a yellow filter.

Agree whole-heartedly about the dynamic range, in both B & W and color

 

[jja]

That's a great photo, and a wonderful story to go with it. My favorite photos of my kids are like this one, just them enjoying being who they are. Your exposure looks really, really good here. Do you shoot APX at its box speed and then develop normally? How much tweaking do you find yourself doing at the scanning and post-processing stage?

Thanks for such a fine photo.

 

[ray_g]

Thanks. I shoot it at iso 100 and develop it in Rodinal 1+50 for 13mins. Very little tweaking - here it was just a minor levels adjustment. What kills me is dust spotting, especially when the furnace is on during the winter!!

 

[x-ray]

Very nicely done Ray. I don't know much about the current Nikon DSLR's but the canons have 10 stops of dynamic range. this is the same as transparency film. If you still have the Nikon files look at them again in Photoshop (cs2) if they were shot in raw. If not then you have no options. If in raw go to the curves section in the raw portion before converting to a tif. In the raw curves select linear. You'll see a big change. The notmal conversion applies contrast boosting curves so you're not getting the total of what your camera produces. By selecting linear you see everything that you can get out of the camera. If you shoot jpg files then theres not much you can do because the camera applies curves predefined by Nikon. Using JPG will result in throwing away about hald the information your camera is producing. This is why I laugh at the folks shooting JPG's in the M8. They're throwing away much of the information from the CCD and accepting the least quality the camera can produce.

 

[sbug]

Beautiful shot Ray. I find b&w film to offer wonderful dynamic range compared to digital. Plus, I really miss the grain in a digital b&w. That said, I find myself gravitating towards color photos shot in digital more so than color on film.

 

[Jeremy Z]

Last I heard, digital can only reproduce 5 stops of dynamic range, vs. 10 on film.

The digital guys are excited because digital is finally getting affordable enough to make sharp enlargements. But dynamic range is still an issue.

...and even when it isn't. Working with film is just more fun, especially if one develops it oneself.

 

[jaapv]

Last I heard, digital can only reproduce 5 stops of dynamic range, vs. 10 on film.

The digital guys are excited because digital is finally getting affordable enough to make sharp enlargements. But dynamic range is still an issue.

...and even when it isn't. Working with film is just more fun, especially if one develops it oneself.

Untrue. Even the venerable Canon D60 had 9 stops and current high-end cameras exceed film in that respect, notably the Leica DMR and M8., but Canon is not far behind and the 1D3 is set to lead the pack. But none can match the look of film, nor the fun - or smell 😉

 

[ray_g]

Very nicely done Ray. I don't know much about the current Nikon DSLR's but the canons have 10 stops of dynamic range. this is the same as transparency film. If you still have the Nikon files look at them again in Photoshop (cs2) if they were shot in raw. If not then you have no options. If in raw go to the curves section in the raw portion before converting to a tif. In the raw curves select linear. You'll see a big change. The notmal conversion applies contrast boosting curves so you're not getting the total of what your camera produces. By selecting linear you see everything that you can get out of the camera. If you shoot jpg files then theres not much you can do because the camera applies curves predefined by Nikon. Using JPG will result in throwing away about hald the information your camera is producing. This is why I laugh at the folks shooting JPG's in the M8. They're throwing away much of the information from the CCD and accepting the least quality the camera can produce.

Thanks for the pointers. Is that 10 stops of DR just for the full-frame canons, or even those with aps sensors?

 

[ferider]

Very nice photo Ray.

It cann't be all about the theoretical DR of a DSLR though. After all we are
looking at an 8 stop/bit grey scale image in your first post .... It must have to do
with how the original light density is mapped to the final image (see x-ray's post).

Roland.

 

[bmicklea]

Very nice photo Ray.

It cann't be all about the theoretical DR of a DSLR though. After all we are
looking at an 8 stop/bit grey scale image in your first post .... It must have to do
with how the original light density is mapped to the final image (see x-ray's post).

Roland.

Somebody yell at me if I'm hijacking the thread, but I just recently got a film scanner and have been struck by the DR I'm getting - it seems much larger than digital.

To your point though Roland I thought that if you scanned in at 14 or 16-bit, did your tweaks then down-sampled to 8-bit grayscale that CS2 is optimizing the 8-bits and providing more of that space to the middle tones than the edge tones.

Am I wrong?

 

[peter_n]

Lovely shot Ray. The kids look great! 🙂

 

[ferider]

To your point though Roland I thought that if you scanned in at 14 or 16-bit, did your tweaks then down-sampled to 8-bit grayscale that CS2 is optimizing the 8-bits and providing more of that space to the middle tones than the edge tones.

Am I wrong?

You're probably right, Brad. But I don't know how this sampling is done (linear or else) and how it is done in a > 10bit DSLR. My point was that - if the sampling strategy can be adjusted (with level curves, etc), then similar greyshades should be achievable, since it is always a down-sampling to the 8bits we see in the great photo above.

Roland.