Early Leitz lenses vs Russian Copies

[cambolt]

If I buy a EXC- condition Black J8 from fedka I should be fairly safe right?
But how would the I-22 and I-50 Elmar copies compare to the Jupiter?
I have seen some photos from Russian lenses and many seem to have a "pre war" look about them - I'm not sure if I like it. I think I would prefer something a little more neutral.

 

[batterytypehah!]

I have seen some photos from Russian lenses and many seem to have a "pre war" look about them - I'm not sure if I like it. I think I would prefer something a little more neutral.

Don't obsess about it. Depends on your film and (post) processing more than the lens. Search flickr for "industar" and you will see these used on digital bodies and giving anything but a vintage look.

The coating on FSU lenses is usually excellent -- the kind of thing you can do when you don't give a damn about capitalist patents, or protecting the environment -- and gives nice, contrasty results.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I have seen some photos from Russian lenses and many seem to have a "pre war" look about them - I'm not sure if I like it. I think I would prefer something a little more neutral.

Jupiter-3, wide-open on the Leica M8:



1936 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 on the M8.



The Jupiter-3 is a faithful copy of the pre-war Sonnar; The Jupiter-8 is closely based on the pre-war Sonnar, different construction and optics tweeked; the Industars are based on the pre-war Tessars, but with improvements on the I-22 and I-50.

 

[Bill58]

If I buy a EXC- condition Black J8 from fedka I should be fairly safe right?
But how would the I-22 and I-50 Elmar copies compare to the Jupiter?
I have seen some photos from Russian lenses and many seem to have a "pre war" look about them - I'm not sure if I like it. I think I would prefer something a little more neutral.

Get Yuri to CLA it too, then you can be about 90-95% safe/ sure.

 

[raid]

Why not go the other way; get a Leica lens, and get a Canon P.
The Leica glass is what Leica photography is about.

 

[cambolt]

Why not go the other way; get a Leica lens, and get a Canon P.
The Leica glass is what Leica photography is about.

If I go this way it will probably be a Summitar or very early Summicron. Problem is though, why go this way if I can have a Leica body and and a Russian lens which is just as good?

 

[raid]

Japanese cameras are as good as Leica cameras.
Isn't this is a dilemma!

 

[cambolt]

Japanese cameras are as good as Leica cameras.
Isn't this is a dilemma!

2011 Toyota Camry is faster than a 1960s MG A.
Which should I get?

But you do have a point. Unless I can get a russian lens for $50 that matches a $300 Elmar

 

[raid]

The other option is a Leica Barnack,like a IIIc with a Summitar. This would be a classic outfit indeed.

 

[cambolt]

The other option is a Leica Barnack,like a IIIc with a Summitar. This would be a classic outfit indeed.

I think I'd find a Barnack too difficult to use quickly

 

[literiter]

I lucked out and found a perfect Industar 50 on the Bay for $25.00 and shipping. It looks and works great.

When I put it on my iiif and tried a roll I was very impressed. Sharp and appears to focus accurately.

Then I bought a reasonably nice looking Elmar 3.5 for quite a bit more.

They seem to work pretty much identically except I think the Industar is more contrasty.



Collapsible Industar 50, Leica iiif RD Ilford XP-2 and negative scan on CS9000

 

[Bill58]

I think I'd find a Barnack too difficult to use quickly

Barnacks are a bitch to load--get a Model P.

 

[cambolt]

Loading film is not a problem for me. To me it is a special ritual that only takes place once a month. I'm more concerned about having two finders. My Dad has a IIIb (I think) and the finders are awful things.
Oftheherd, can I borrow your flame retardant suit for a second? 😛

 

[shadowfox]

Possibly because it's one of the worst Leicas ever made (I bought mine new).

But even a bad Leica is better than most 'good' cameras.

Cheers,

R.

Roger, that's your experience, not mine and quite a few others.

I've tried other M models also, but always back to M4-P. Maybe like a favorite pair of shoes, it's comfortable and you know what to expect.

 

[literiter]

Possibly because it's one of the worst Leicas ever made (I bought mine new).

But even a bad Leica is better than most 'good' cameras.

Cheers,

R.

I have a M2 and a M4-P (which I bought new as well). There isn't much difference in either as far as I can tell.

I'm holding both cameras in my hands as I consider this. The M2 feels smoother when you wind it on and the finder is less cluttered with frame lines but aside from this I don't see much difference. The M2 hasn't quite the garish finish of the M4-P since there is no red dot....big deal!

I've had both cameras apart as well. The innards are pretty much the same camera.

I'm not saying the M4-P isn't one of the worst Leicas ever made but I'd like to consider your criteria. Then ask, does it matter?

 

[Red Robin]

One or the other?

One or the other?

Why not go the other way; get a Leica lens, and get a Canon P.
The Leica glass is what Leica photography is about.

Won't comment on getting a leica, had my chance and decided to stick with the Canons. along with my Bessa R . An assortment of good glass more than fills my needs. I chose Canon, Russian, and German. Locking yourself into a single system only limits your options. Good luck

 

[Roger Hicks]

I have a M2 and a M4-P (which I bought new as well). There isn't much difference in either as far as I can tell.

I'm holding both cameras in my hands as I consider this. The M2 feels smoother when you wind it on and the finder is less cluttered with frame lines but aside from this I don't see much difference. The M2 hasn't quite the garish finish of the M4-P since there is no red dot....big deal!

I've had both cameras apart as well. The innards are pretty much the same camera.

I'm not saying the M4-P isn't one of the worst Leicas ever made but I'd like to consider your criteria. Then ask, does it matter?

That's precisely my point. To all that you've said, I'd add the truly rotten 'black chrome' finish. And, as you say, even with all that in mind, the differences are still pretty trivial.

Cheers,

R.

 

[ampguy]

There were 2 different versions of the M4P, the one with the two sockets in the back is the cost reduced version. If yours works, then it should take photos as well as any other Leica M, but is no match for a Japanese camera that has twice or better shutter speed, faster film loading, and not have a tendency to jam up on the 14-16th frame every once in a while.

 

[kuzano]

My 1952 Kneb and Jupiter 8 (compared to Canon D5)

My 1952 Kneb and Jupiter 8 (compared to Canon D5)

Bought this camera/lens CLA'd for $160. The "tingle" in my Jockeys comes more from saying I shoot an old russian copy than a Leica. To me, that's what it really boils down to... what boosts our ego. And remember, creating that tingle is quite OK, regardless of what does it for you.

Kneb compared to others in inventory.

In order L to R ... Fuji GL690 w/metered AE100 lens, Canon 5D, Canon XSi, Fujifilm S2Pro, Olympus e-500-14x54mm, center Kneb w Jupiter 8. Please note the smallest DSLR is the Fujifilm S2Pro in Nikon body/Nikon lenses.

 

[Ronald M]

I have never bought a used Leica that did not soon need a CLA.
That is half your budget right there.

Old lenses are not much good unless you stop them down.
They can also need internal cleaning and lubrication.