Early Russian Lenses, What Features to look for.

Kai-san said:
Thanks for this, Boojum! I've got the MIR-1b in M42 mount, very nice lens. The MIR-1 is an M39 lens made for the early Zenit SLR's and cannot be used on an LTM rangefinder. I do not know if anybody makes an extender ring to fit on a rangefinder, but you would not get focus coupling. But with an extender you could use it on a FED Zarya or a Bessa-L.
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M39 SLR lenses do work weirdly well on a Focoslide if you're up for some slow-paced tripod-based photography shenanigans. I've repurposed an M39 Helios-44 that way... not sure I'd cough up the money for a MIR-1 to use in this way, but I'm not going to lie and say it's not tempting.
 
Wow. I joined 20 years ago today....

On front elements on the J-3: I've replaced a number of bad front elements on KMZ, ZOMZ, and wartime Sonnars. I've used Valdai front elements on KMZ and ZOMZ. The results improved greatly compared with scratched up elements. I've replaced front elements of 2 or 3 Wartime Sonnars with early KMZ front elements, excellent results. Sometimes this required shimming the lens for best focus. The front element is the most compatible between the generations of Sonnar and Jupiter lenses. I've also swapped out middle triplets, but tend to keep them close in type and year.
 
Regarding coating I find it difficult to talk about color of coating. It took me a while to find a way to see the tint of different coatings. You might find this interesting. Here are different Sonnar 1.5/50 from throughout the decades.


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  1. top row: 1951 Jupiter-3, 1963 Jupiter-3, 2016 Jupiter-3+ MC
  2. middle row: 1945 CZJ Sonnar T LTM, 1959 CZJ Sonnar, 1957 ZO Sonnar, 2014 C Sonnar T*
  3. bottom row: 1935 CZJ Sonnar uncoated, 1938 CZJ Sonnar T, 1940 CZJ Sonnar T
The uncoated Sonnars are easy to spot since they do not alter the color of light. Coatings split the light into different colors. So uncoated lenses show white lights as white reflections. All coated lenses show the white light in different colored reflections.

The 1951 Jupiter has a different tint than the later 60ies Jupiter. The 60ies Jupiters show a strong yellowish tint.

Zeiss coatings show a strong brownish tint in most cases. The bluish tint of the 1938 Sonnar might hint to an issue here: separation.
 
milescl said:
Here's a recent listing for a lens, which if my memory is correct, is believed to be a product of some degree of Soviet inspiration and production, is that correct? I remember seeing these discussed somewhere but for the life of me I cannot find the thread.
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That is an odd looking lens. The engraving on the name ring does not look like a typical CZJ product of the time. The serial number as per Thiele shows this lens as part of a batch of 7.5cm f3/5 lenses made for the Rolleiflex in 1936. The fixture for the rear lens group does not have the usual design of a 5cm f1.5 Sonnar. Lastly, the lens looks too long, makes me wonder if it is one of those weird post-WW2 58mm lenses. I wonder if the lens would focus properly on that leica.
 
It looks like one of the 5.8cm F1.5 optics in an LTM mount. The lens looks like it has an indexed cam. These lenses were often bought by serviceman in Germany and have popped up before. These have been called Transition lenses, "Coburg" lenses, etc.
 
I downloaded a pic of the rear group and tweaked it in Photoshop elements. The rear lens group has 6 notches in the fixture, similar to my 58mm irregular production sonnar.
 
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I scoured many of the catalogs of the previous big camera auctions and failed to find either a 5cm or 5.8cm that had a barrel design like the aforementioned though I agree with the assessments above. I just have a strong memory of seeing one exactly like this and cannot remember where.

What’s always intrigued me about these lenses is post war parts used but many still have uncoated optics.
 
I have a CZJ Sonnar 5cm F1.5 Transition lens that the middle triplet was not fully polished. I replaced the middle triplet, made performance much better.
 
milescl said:
I scoured many of the catalogs of the previous big camera auctions and failed to find either a 5cm or 5.8cm that had a barrel design like the aforementioned though I agree with the assessments above. I just have a strong memory of seeing one exactly like this and cannot remember where.

What’s always intrigued me about these lenses is post war parts used but many still have uncoated optics.
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Post war Germany was a wasteland. I had relatives there. Getting food was a major effort. No doubt corners were cut just to have salable items.
 
deltapuppy said:
Check this!

www.ebay.com

Zorkiy ZK Red P 50mm f/2 USSR Lens for Zorky Leica m39 | eBay

Zorky ZK 50mm f/2 - "Zonnar Krasnogorsky" - super-fast normal lens with single-layer coating.
www.ebay.com
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The seller lists it as an F1.5 lens- clearly is F2. I have seen ZK lenses like this before. The seller seems to have cut-and-pasted the wrong description, how can they be trusted for a $600 lens.

Same seller:
www.ebay.com

Zorky BK 1:28 / f 3.5 USSR Rare Wide Angle Rangefinger Lens 000170 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Zorky BK 1:28 / f 3.5 USSR Rare Wide Angle Rangefinger Lens 000170 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
This one looks wrong. SN engraved in the rear looks too crude, and rear lens cap engraved "Zeiss Ikon"
It looks like a later J-12 engraved to look like a BK lens.

Too many mistakes to take a chance.
 
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www.ebay.com

Lens SONNAR CARL ZEISS JENA 5CM F1:2 T 50MM F2, LEICA M39 LTM LENS | eBay

CARL ZEISS JENA SONNAR 5CM F1:2 T 50MM F2 LEICA M39 LTM LENS RABBIT EARS (copy ). The real focal length of this lens is 52.54mm. The lens is in good condition! Everything works fine. The glass is clean, all photos are real.
www.ebay.com

Hard to believe that any seller is allowed to stay on Ebay with such obvious fakes. Reporting them as counterfeit does nothing- I've tried.
 
Sonnar Brian said:
The seller lists it as an F1.5 lens- clearly is F2. I have seen ZK lenses like this before. The seller seems to have cut-and-pasted the wrong description, how can they be trusted for a $600 lens.

Same seller:
www.ebay.com

Zorky BK 1:28 / f 3.5 USSR Rare Wide Angle Rangefinger Lens 000170 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Zorky BK 1:28 / f 3.5 USSR Rare Wide Angle Rangefinger Lens 000170 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
This one looks wrong. SN engraved in the rear looks too crude, and rear lens cap engraved "Zeiss Ikon"
It looks like a later J-12 engraved to look like a BK lens.

Too many mistakes to take a chance.
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I think that the f 2 collapsible is legitimate, looks just like the collapsible CZJ f 2, except the soviet version has an "M" instead of the "m" on the CZJ lens.

I also agree that the bK lens is probably a fake, bad engraving on rear group as Brian noted.
 
dexdog said:
I think that the f 2 collapsible is legitimate, looks just like the collapsible CZJ f 2, except the soviet version has an "M" instead of the "m" on the CZJ lens.

I also agree that the bK lens is probably a fake, bad engraving on rear group as Brian noted.
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The pictures are of a legitimate ZK F2- but the seller's description of it is totally wrong. Hard to know which you will get- a legit 5cm F2 ZK, or a lens that is not shown. At $600- the description needs to fit the pictures.
 
Sonnar Brian said:
www.ebay.com

Lens SONNAR CARL ZEISS JENA 5CM F1:2 T 50MM F2, LEICA M39 LTM LENS | eBay

CARL ZEISS JENA SONNAR 5CM F1:2 T 50MM F2 LEICA M39 LTM LENS RABBIT EARS (copy ). The real focal length of this lens is 52.54mm. The lens is in good condition! Everything works fine. The glass is clean, all photos are real.
www.ebay.com

Hard to believe that any seller is allowed to stay on Ebay with such obvious fakes. Reporting them as counterfeit does nothing- I've tried.
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He does include the word "copy" once in the description and has sold 18 of them! Those two things together are amazing. It's like he's actually a wholesale dealer of fakes. They are a copy when sold but counterfeit when resold...
 
dexdog said:
I think that the f 2 collapsible is legitimate, looks just like the collapsible CZJ f 2, except the soviet version has an "M" instead of the "m" on the CZJ lens.

I also agree that the bK lens is probably a fake, bad engraving on rear group as Brian noted.
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Yes! I can see the difference in the two "Ms" on the Soviet Cams page.

Soviet and Russian Cameras

www.sovietcams.com www.sovietcams.com
 
Sonnar Brian said:
The pictures are of a legitimate ZK F2- but the seller's description of it is totally wrong. Hard to know which you will get- a legit 5cm F2 ZK, or a lens that is not shown. At $600- the description needs to fit the pictures.
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Is this a price at which these generally trade or have traded?
 
I ordered a Jupiter 3 50mm f/1.5 from Ukraine via eBay. Why? Because I watched Andrej Tarkovsky's "Mirror" and had the stupid idea that a lens made in Kyiv in 1963 would help me with my effort to go back in time. It did not. The lens came with the inspection sheet and the original Bakelite jar from Kiev. (NOT Kyiv. It was the USSR at the time)
With the 39mm adapter, I got an image on my A7III. There was no way to get it in focus. The simple design as it is, I took it apart in a couple of minutes. My conclusion was that it had been run over by a truck. My son, who is a fanatic of everything weird, gave up on it after a couple of trials. No good!
The rule of not buying anything used without actually having seen it is supported by my experience.
Whatever, I still think that the camera runs in the Mirror, which is the most beautiful ever in cinematic history.
And Andrej Tarkovsky is a genius, one of a kind.
 
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