Ebay: Fraud or stupidity?

[Sid836]

I have been looking for a Kiev III to add to my collection. I have one, but I would love to have one in mint condition.
Searching around I have come across to this one KIEV 3 Rangefinder. CAMERA & CASE- 1956 on ebay.
He/she claims that it is a Kiev-III, but it looks like being one of the quite common late Kiev-4s made on 1975. Further in the description it is being stated "First produced in 1956 this example is later with serial number 7500351". I still laugh reading it! 🙂
He/she could be just ignorant, or trying to make more out of nothing.

 

[Boris Stupak]

Most people on ebay are not experts on what they sell. They do minimal research and list their item. He probably thinks it is a Kiev III and he has no idea that there are Kiev 4's. It's not like he is perpetrating some big fraud that will land him a huge amount of money.

You know what it is, so just don't bid on it.

 

[btgc]

This is antique online store (or antiques online). What did you expect, comprehensive expertise? Some descriptions and prices also suggest seller isn't very clear about what he has listed.

There are knowledgeable resellers which buy lots, break them into individual bits and bites, describe well, supply good pictures (sometimes too good 🙂) and charge accordingly. You choose.

 

[Sid836]

Of course! It does not seem to be specialist, and the choice is always mine. But this time it got funny. Usually when you have no much knowledge over something you put a price tag and that's it. Whoever likes it, buys it.
But this time we have an expert-expert "First produced in 1956 this example is later with serial number 7500351". 🙂
Sorry, but I cannot keep myself from laughing! Not that it is the worst I have ever seen on ebay though.

 

[botty]

I am guessing that the seller is thinking along the lines of:

Contax 2 did not have a light meter, contax 3 did. Therefore my kiev with a light meter is a kiev 3.

 

[Sid836]

Could be, or he/she might have bought this from a guy that had convinced him/her that it is a 3 for a few buckazoids more. 🙂

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Well, 1975 is later than 1956 isn't it?

I don't call it fraud or stupidity. Fraud means deliberately done and the serial number undermines that line of thought; a conman wouldn't give it away so easily.

As for stupidity I'd call it lack of in depth knowledge. Stupidity or lack of it is about what you do with the obvious; looking at "Kiev" on the front of the case and saying it's an unknown make might be called stupidity. But for a non-expect confusing a Kiev 2, 3 or 4 isn't that serious...

Regards, David

 

[MikeDimit]

In my country this is sold much cheaper. Divide the price in 2 to get the price in Euro.http://prodavalnik.com/ads/?q=%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%B2

 

[Roger Hicks]

I have been looking for a Kiev III to add to my collection. I have one, but I would love to have one in mint condition.
Searching around I have come across to this one KIEV 3 Rangefinder. CAMERA & CASE- 1956 on ebay.
He/she claims that it is a Kiev-III, but it looks like being one of the quite common late Kiev-4s made on 1975. Further in the description it is being stated "First produced in 1956 this example is later with serial number 7500351". I still laugh reading it! 🙂
He/she could be just ignorant, or trying to make more out of nothing.

Highlight: Read it a different way. The camera [model] was first produced in 1956 and the one I am selling is later.

I really don't see it as a problem. A slightly clumsy construction, perhaps, but perfectly reasonable.

Cheers,

R.

 

[chrishayton]

I agree with roger regarding the wording

Its not like its a major issue, its a cheap camera with a badly worded listing.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I agree with roger regarding the wording

Its not like its a major issue, its a cheap camera with a badly worded listing.

Dear Chris,

After all, it's quite easy to misread or misunderstand something, and once you have misread or misunderstood it, it can be hard to re-interpret it with a different meaning. I've certainly fallen into that trap myself on occasion, and you must have too.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Sid836]

I agree with roger regarding the wording

Its not like its a major issue, its a cheap camera with a badly worded listing.

When selling stuff on ebay you have to be precise in describing what you sell. If it was for five bucks it would not have been much of an issue. If one cannot respect that, then should not be selling stuff on ebay. That's my point.
As it is now, to put things and words to their correct place, it is a cheap camera with an unreasonably high price tag (and a misleading title/description).

 

[Jack Conrad]

That sort of information is pretty darn obscure. I didn't know and I'm fairly savvy about vintage camera's, thanks in large part to RFF and my obsessive compulsive disorder, er, I mean GAS.

Prices are subjective. $75 isn't a huge amount. Plus it's a "make offer" deal.

That means the price is negotiable. So, make an offer of $35 and you might win a "late" model Kiev with a long serial number. 🙄

 

[sreed2006]

Why not send a polite note to the seller telling them that the listing is incorrect, and tell them what the camera actually is?

 

[Sid836]

Why not send a polite note to the seller telling them that the listing is incorrect, and tell them what the camera actually is?

I did so and the response was to mind my own business 🙂

That sort of information is pretty darn obscure. I didn't know and I'm fairly savvy about vintage camera's, thanks in large part to RFF and my obsessive compulsive disorder, er, I mean GAS.

Prices are subjective. $75 isn't a huge amount. Plus it's a "make offer" deal.

That means the price is negotiable. So, make an offer of $35 and you might win a "late" model Kiev with a long serial number. 🙄

After the somewhat unexpected response I had from the seller I wouldn't take that even for free. 🙂

 

[Boris Stupak]

If you attempt to find every error in every ebay listing, you are in for a sisyphean task.

Don't waste your time "correcting" sellers. On the other hand, when you find something incorrectly listed that is far more valuable than the listed price, that is when you can get yourself a tremendous bargain. Many buyers spend their time doing just that, looking for rare items that are poorly described.

 

[Roger Hicks]

If you attempt to find every error in every ebay listing, you are in for a sisyphean task. . . .

Getting excited about ANYTHING on eB is an invitation to madness...

Cheers,

R.

 

[Boris Stupak]

One could argue that compulsive bidding on ebay is already confirmation of madness.

 

[Pablito]

One could argue that compulsive bidding on ebay is already confirmation of madness.

... or that browsing ebay at all is madness.

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

If only for the sheer devilment of it, I'm going to jump in on Nikos's side...

😛

There are a lot of people who play the "I don't really know what this is" game on eBay and good on Nikos for drawing attention to one example. In the UK, if you sell something by way of trade you must have sufficient knowledge and skill to describe it accurately and be sure it is fit for purpose. Weasel phrases like "I don't know much about this" are no defence. Indeed, they're taken to exacerbate the offence.

I personally know of one case where a "trader" tried this trick in England. He ended up having to make a full refund, plus costs and damages and paid a £1000 fine on top.

Just sometimes, the bad guys get their comeuppance! 😀