eBay ratings- don't want to be a jerk...

[TEZillman]

Dexdog,

Over the past week or so, I helped my wife sell 12 items on e-bay, so being in the "seller frame of mind" I read your post with an entirely different viewpoint than I typically have had as a buyer.

Unless you have negociated how soon the seller will ship the item or the seller states in the listing when they will ship, you're at the mercy of what the seller considers reasonable. We had one buyer who thought that the item they purchased Sunday afternoon should be in the mail on Monday morning. We did not meet his expectation, but we did get all of the PayPal items out on Tuesday.

The same goes for packing. The seller may think that the lens isn't worth packaging in the manner you think is appropriate. Newspaper is a lot cheaper than purchased packing materials.

You have a gripe with the seller over paying for priority mail and insurance. The seller is clearly wrong here. On the other hand, once you have packaged up twelve items in similar brown boxes, it becomes tough to keep them straight. The only way to do so is to index the name and address with the item and the agreed upon shipping method. It wouldn't be difficult to make a mistake here, so I agree with many of the people above that you should contact the seller first rather than going straight to the feedback approach.

I learned several things during this adventure into "mass" selling on e-bay. First, other people's expectations often aren't the same as ours. In my mind, if someone pays by PayPal and pays for priority mail they should expect that the payment will get to the seller sooner and the post office will deliver faster and no more. These measures are not inducing the seller to ship items faster. In fact, the seller is stuck paying the fees for PayPal.

Second, one should be thankful for sellers who sell items on e-bay for less than $50.00. Below that point, the time invested in listing the item, answering e-mails about questions that are clearly addressed in the listing and packing and shipping the item, plus the e-bay and PayPal fees make it just about not worth the effort. On the average, the items that we sold for under $50.00 cost us 20% of the total sales price plus shipping cost in e-bay and PayPal fees. (yes, PayPal charges on the whole amount, not just the sales price)

Third, the radio button the is suppose to stop the listing from being seen by people outside the areas that you're willing to ship to doesn't work. We received at least a half dozen e-mails from people asking if we'd be willing to ship to other areas.

Fourth, the postage calculation on the post office's website is inacurate. We paid more for shipping in all cases.

Fifth, packing materials are expensive. I checked out the cost of buying new materials thinking that it would be easier to work with those. We fortunately had saved enough materials to ship all of the items, if we hadn't we would have paid another couple bucks per item for shipping materials.

Sorry, to get a bit off topic here. I just thought it would be helpful to voice the issues on other side of the Transaction.

 

[dexdog]

TEZillman, thanks for a seller's perspective on the affair. Again, I usually try to give the seller the benefit of a doubt, and certainly would not begrudge the seller reasonable costs for boxes and other packing materials. This particular seller used a wad of newspaper and a previously-used box, so I have reason to beleive that his costs for these items were minimal. The thing that really bugs me is shipping the lens w/o insurance in an unsafe manner. He effectively forced me to accept the risk of damage or loss, after I had paid the guy to insure the package in order to minimize my risk. As I said in a previous email, I can't know whether the seller was forgetful, lazy or just dishonest, but I can email the guy to try to figure it out.

Anyway, I plan to email the seller to discuss.

 

[TEZillman]

It really does sound like your seller's viewpoint on reasonably timely shipping and effective packaging is outside of the norm and they really should answer for charging for priority mail and insurance without providing them, even if they made a mistake.

 

[Poptart]

Leave a positive. I'm going against the tide here, but the lens is good, right? All that other stuff you won't remember in a month. The f/b system is a farce and should be ignored anyway; it's just a popularity contest. I was actually relieved to get my first negative a few weeks ago. The customer offered to retract it if . . . (extortion) but I declined. Too much pressure being 100% "successful."
Packing and shipping is a science that lots of people don't understand. Crumpled newspaper is actually a good packing material--better in many applications than bubble wrap. Don't be fooled by low-tech methods. I myself try to use the lightest-weight materials (a lot of air cells and foam) and the best-sized boxes (making many myself) and all I get is grief because I won't give shipping costs ahead of time. Stating my policies doesn't help that much: I still get a constant barrage of "how much is shipping to Polebend, WA," in my inbox.
People should consider eBay as the glorified garage sale that it really is and not get too uptight about the particulars.

 

[ch1]

Leave a positive. I'm going against the tide here, but the lens is good, right? All that other stuff you won't remember in a month. The f/b system is a farce and should be ignored anyway; it's just a popularity contest. I was actually relieved to get my first negative a few weeks ago. The customer offered to retract it if . . . (extortion) but I declined. Too much pressure being 100% "successful."
Packing and shipping is a science that lots of people don't understand. Crumpled newspaper is actually a good packing material--better in many applications than bubble wrap. Don't be fooled by low-tech methods. I myself try to use the lightest-weight materials (a lot of air cells and foam) and the best-sized boxes (making many myself) and all I get is grief because I won't give shipping costs ahead of time. Stating my policies doesn't help that much: I still get a constant barrage of "how much is shipping to Polebend, WA," in my inbox.
People should consider eBay as the glorified garage sale that it really is and not get too uptight about the particulars.

Very well put. As both a buyer and seller on eBay - this is a matter of greys and not B&W! I for one wish eBay would do away with the FB system.

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

Dexdog,

I'd recommend giving the seller a chance to address your concerns first. Sometimes they sell more than one item and it is possible that he forgot that you had requested (and paid for) insurance.

If he does not at least refund you the insurance, I'd leave at the very least, a neutral feedback. Depending on how he words his response ( his attitude/tone) I'd even be willing to give him a negative.

After all, you gave him a chance to do the right thing once, and you gave him a second chance to correct his mistake. After that, it is fair to leave a negative if he is unwilling to redress his mistake.

 

[doubs43]

Very well put. As both a buyer and seller on eBay - this is a matter of greys and not B&W! I for one wish eBay would do away with the FB system.

While I agree that the FB system could stand improvement, at the moment it's the ONLY means by which a buyer can judge a seller's integrity. Remove the FB and the number of crooks using ebay to fleece buyers would skyrocket overnight IMO.

I'd like to see the rules REQUIRE the seller to post buyer feedback immediately upon receipt of verifiable payment. Ebay could arrange it so that the buyer couldn't post feedback at all until the seller posts first. After a certain time had elasped, the buyer could override the seller's feedback provision, post feedback and the seller would then have no option to reply. That would prevent sellers from using FB as a weapon to retaliate when the buyer is not pleased with the services or the item(s).

Just my opinion.

Walker

 

[KoNickon]

I like Walker's idea -- seems to me that if I as the buyer have paid the seller in a timely fashion, I've lived up to my end of the bargain. So the seller should post first. Now, certainly transactions stay open for a while (like if the buyer requests a refund), so there shouldn't be a requirement for the seller to post until a reasonable time passes, like if the seller indicates the sale is final if the buyer doesn't request a return and refund within X days. But the idea that the seller gets to wait and see what I say, and give retaliatory negative feedback when I've only exercised my rights, is pretty annoying.

Generally I'll give a seller positive feedback as long as he gives me my money back, even if the item was woefully different from its description. Such is the low standard of selling on eBay that it's a "win" as long as I don't ultimately get taken. (And I have been, a few times.)

 

[ch1]

While I agree that the FB system could stand improvement, at the moment it's the ONLY means by which a buyer can judge a seller's integrity. Remove the FB and the number of crooks using ebay to fleece buyers would skyrocket overnight IMO.

I'd like to see the rules REQUIRE the seller to post buyer feedback immediately upon receipt of verifiable payment. Ebay could arrange it so that the buyer couldn't post feedback at all until the seller posts first. After a certain time had elasped, the buyer could override the seller's feedback provision, post feedback and the seller would then have no option to reply. That would prevent sellers from using FB as a weapon to retaliate when the buyer is not pleased with the services or the item(s).

Just my opinion.

Walker

What you need to realize is that it is the Seller who supports eBay - not the Buyer. eBay makes its money from Seller fees (just like its sister company PayPal) so it is always going to favor Sellers over Buyers unless there is a particularly agregious situation.

It's simply the case of "he who pays the piper, calls the tune".

When you "shop" eBay remember, it is a seller's marketplace - not the other way around! 🙂

 

[Poptart]

The fact of someone paying for an item seems a frivilous reason to give positive f/b: it's just what you said you'd do when you bid on the item. The seller has all sorts of claims that have to be evaluated by a buyer when he receives an item and I don't see why the seller should come out on the bad end of the f/b stick just to make buyers happy.

 

[brightsky]

Contact the seller

Contact the seller

This situation is not complicated.

The seller did not live up to the advertised (and paid) shipping method. Write to the seller and inform him/her how fortunate it was that the item arrived safely and request a refund of the difference in actual shipping cost and what you paid.

If the monies due you are refunded, leave positive feedback. It not, consider the fact that the seller may be vindictive and leave negative feedback for you if you choose to leave it for him/her. In this scenario, I would not leave any feedback.

I am both a buyer and seller on eBay with over 1100 combined transactions. Once, unintentionally, I made the same mistake and shipped an item without insurance. I refunded the $1.30 paid by the buyer. Luckily, the item arrived safely; however, I pack properly and would have accepted my responsibility had it not.

It's a matter of principle, and you don't know if your seller possesses any until you write.

 

[T_om]

I'd like to see the rules REQUIRE the seller to post buyer feedback immediately upon receipt of verifiable payment.

I strongly disagree.

The deal ain't over 'til the fat lady sings. In this case, the fat lady is the buyer and feedback is the song. Until then, the deal is still a work in progress.

You see why in this very thread. All the peasants are gathering with pitchforks and torches and the original poster admits he has not even contacted the seller about his complaint.

When I sell an item, and the buyer is happy and posts feedback to that effect, I'll gladly do the same. If the buyer is NOT happy, then I expect him/her to abide by eBay's rules and contact me so we can work something out.

If the buyer is unreasonable in his or her complaint then the seller should not be forced to accept negative feedback without recourse to airing HIS side of the story.

Paying for an auction you win is not the end of the process.

Tom

 

[sf]

nail the seller for it

nail the seller for it

they make promises, and those promises need to be kept. Such methods of business are vital to the success of that sales system. In a transaction where the buyer and seller never make personal contact, and the item's condition rests largely in the care of the postal service, insurance is necessary.

You might compare such reckless tactics to a taxi driver that gets you where you want to go, but does so at perilous speeds, without regard to your safety or comfort, etc. You'd certainly complain - what if things went wrong? Same situation with online auction sites.

Absolute rules of engagement must be set, kept, managed, communicated. That is the backbone of hte system. Punish the seller. If for no other reason that they lied to you, took your money for nothing, and put all the risk in your court.

 

[nwcanonman]

But Tom,
You've got the buyer's money before you ship the item. Not all sellers abide by Ebay's rules or have integrity. That's why the seller can always give his side to a negative FB.
But a seller using negative FB, after receiving the money, is abusing the system and causes a lot of people to NOT leave any feedback out of fear, which is what the BAD sellers count on. Pure bully-ism.
Yes, the original poster needs to contact the seller and await a reply. But the seller DID screw up and owes the buyer an apology + $.

 

[ch1]

I strongly disagree.

The deal ain't over 'til the fat lady sings. In this case, the fat lady is the buyer and feedback is the song. Until then, the deal is still a work in progress.

You see why in this very thread. All the peasants are gathering with pitchforks and torches and the original poster admits he has not even contacted the seller about his complaint.

When I sell an item, and the buyer is happy and posts feedback to that effect, I'll gladly do the same. If the buyer is NOT happy, then I expect him/her to abide by eBay's rules and contact me so we can work something out.

If the buyer is unreasonable in his or her complaint then the seller should not be forced to accept negative feedback without recourse to airing HIS side of the story.

Paying for an auction you win is not the end of the process.

Tom

Tom,

Well said, thank you.

eBay is simply a (somewhat) auction-style marketplace connecting sellers to their buyers (and that order of phrase is deliberate).

As is the case in any such marketplace (think NYSE) the sellers are the parties that support the fvenue. As such, the "rules of the marketplace" are intended to protect sellers in their course of dealing with buyers.

The purpose of the marketplace is to firstly bring the parties together and, then, to ensure that the buyer "performs" by providing good payment to the seller.

Too many folks confuse an eBay-style marketplace with retail sellers such as WalMart etc. who are willing to take back any item the buyer decides to reject.

In the case of this poster, he was "upset" about the timeliness of delivery and the "quality" of packaging.

In fact, he received his item in good condition!

Where is his "gripe"?

 

[nwcanonman]

copake_ham,
OK. Lets go further with the Taxi analogy.
You're sending your 5 year old daughter to school. There's a line of cheap taxi's with hot-rod kids, but at the end is an older mature driver who assures you that for $10 extra your daugther will get to school in complete safety.
You pay him the money, kiss your child --- an the taxi zooms off, squealing tires, narrowly missing pedestrians and other obsticles. YET, somehow miraclously your daughter makes it to school in one piece.
"Where's the Gripe?"

It's called Ethics, not random chance.

 

[ch1]

copake_ham,
OK. Lets go further with the Taxi analogy.
You're sending your 5 year old daughter to school. There's a line of cheap taxi's with hot-rod kids, but at the end is an older mature driver who assures you that for $10 extra your daugther will get to school in complete safety.
You pay him the money, kiss your child --- an the taxi zooms off, squealing tires, narrowly missing pedestrians and other obsticles. YET, somehow miraclously your daughter makes it to school in one piece.
"Where's the Gripe?"

It's called Ethics, not random chance.

First of all - I never said anything about taxis.

Perhaps you confused me with some other post 😕

And the "little daughter" analogy is a cheap rhetorical trick (as would be the crippled, elderly grandmother carrying a homemade birthday cake to her cancer-striken granddaughter!_.

Regardless...

Rule 1 of a marketplace: Caveat Emptor

Rule 2 of a marketplace: See Rule 1

If you want ethics and morality go to a place of worship not a marketplace!

 

[Frank Granovski]

I bought a mint lens from E-bay. When the delivery guy was at my door, he shook the box and said, "Whatcha got?"

It came wrapped with a little toilet and newspaper. Of course one of the lens elements was loose so I sent it back. It only cost me shipping 2 ways.

 

[ch1]

I bought a mint lens from E-bay. When the delivery guy was at my door, he shook the box and said, "Whatcha got?"

It came wrapped with a little toilet and newspaper. Of course one of the lens elements was loose so I sent it back. It only cost me shipping 2 ways.

Frank.

Firstly, "mint" is about as subjective a term as one sees of the bay.

I consider it a flavor and disregard it as a description!

As to the packaging - as one earlier poster here noted - using crumpled newspaper and toiltepaper etc. can be an acceptable way of shipping - if the sender does it right.*

And. as to paying the two-way expense - what was that cost versus the total purchase price? I agree that the seller should have met you "half way" on that. But if the lens was big $$$ and you got a refund - seems to me the dual shipping cost is 'de minimus' to the overall transaction,

All I am saying is that eBay is NOT retail shopping in Mall America.

It is an exchaged-based marketplace where sellers pay the support!

So....CAVEAT EMPTOR!

 

[ch1]

Sorry:

* Besides - newspaper and toiletpaper are much more environmentally friendly than those damned styrofoam "peanuts"!