eBay shill bidder convicted in UK

chris00nj

chris00nj

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Daily Mail - An ebay seller was convicted in the UK of creating shill accounts and bidding up the price of his items and giving himself positive feedback


I wonder how much this happens here in the US with our vintage photography gear? Or are we legitamtely bidding against each other all the time?
 
to me an Auction is a Auction like you go to in rural area of your country, you go look at it and then you try to get and you get it then you leave thats it Folks no returns no refunds , you had your chance by looking at it: Thats all she wrote:
 
Immoral - maybe, but illegal? Noone makes anyone bid or keep bidding. But I dont know the law in this case...........
 
No idea how often it happens in the US, but here in the UK I reckon it is a bit more common than most would expect.

I have not used Ebay for a while, but since they "hid" the user id and thus the location of bidders, it is becoming harder to spot. In the old Ebay days it was surprising how an item with no bids on it, no reserve and only a few minutes to go would suddenly get a bid from a user with zero feedback located in the same town as the seller! Of course it could have been coincidence ....

John
 
Happens here in Denmark; one of my good friends is an artist. He by accident bought one of his own paintings for 1.000 $ bidding this way. Got his own money from himself of course - except for the 30% to the auction site 😀
 
konicaman said:
Happens here in Denmark; one of my good friends is an artist. He by accident bought one of his own paintings for 1.000 $ bidding this way. Got his own money from himself of course - except for the 30% to the auction site 😀
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How much post & packing did he charge himself? 🙂

John
 
John Lawrence said:
No idea how often it happens in the US, but here in the UK I reckon it is a bit more common than most would expect.

I have not used Ebay for a while, but since they "hid" the user id and thus the location of bidders, it is becoming harder to spot.
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I agree. I believe from a couple of examples (deadbeat bidders on my auctions who had also shilled their own auctions) that shill bidding is becoming more commonplace. Sometimes I wonder if eBay are happy about this, if it increases sale prices and hence the 10% commission they now award themselves on top of their 4% PayPal fees.
 
Paul T. said:
I agree. I believe from a couple of examples (deadbeat bidders on my auctions who had also shilled their own auctions) that shill bidding is becoming more commonplace. Sometimes I wonder if eBay are happy about this, if it increases sale prices and hence the 10% commission they now award themselves on top of their 4% PayPal fees.
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Yeah, I don't expect they are pursueing this too agressively. 😉
 
chris00nj said:
I wonder how much this happens here in the US with our vintage photography gear?
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Not sure how often it happens with photo gear, but I came up against a seller that I suspected/accused of shill bidding on an auction for a guitar. I notified ebay. It took the 'Help' group almost a month to reply to my request. By that time the seller and I had resolved it.

The seller never once denied that he used a secondary account to bid up the auction. I accused him of driving the bid up to my maximum and then withdrawing his bid once he found my maximum. I was the only bidder on his auction. His reply, "what does it matter? You won the auction."

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RayPA said:
The seller never once denied that he used a secondary account to bid up the auction. I accused him of driving the bid up to my maximum and then withdrawing his bid once he found my maximum. I was the only bidder on his auction. His reply, "what does it matter? You won the auction."
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While I do not like the seller's attitude, I do see his point.

I guess my thought process is a lot different than most bidders on eBay. I bid the maximum amount I'm willing to pay for an item. I rarely ever bid again. If someone outbids me by a penny so be it. If it's a shill bidder I could care less since I buy it for what i was willing to pay.

Too often I think buyers, especially of camera gear, are more interested in getting a "steal" rather than actual getting something useful.
 
RayPA said:
Not sure how often it happens with photo gear, but I came up against a seller that I suspected/accused of shill bidding on an auction for a guitar. I notified ebay. It took the 'Help' group almost a month to reply to my request. By that time the seller and I had resolved it.

The seller never once denied that he used a secondary account to bid up the auction. I accused him of driving the bid up to my maximum and then withdrawing his bid once he found my maximum. I was the only bidder on his auction. His reply, "what does it matter? You won the auction."

/
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So if someone outbids you and then withdraws the bid, are you still required to pay?

I tend to bid the maximum I am willing to pay and then let it ride. I think shilling is only effective if you are prone to getting into bidding wars.
 
chris00nj said:
So if someone outbids you and then withdraws the bid, are you still required to pay?

I tend to bid the maximum I am willing to pay and then let it ride. I think shilling is only effective if you are prone to getting into bidding wars.
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This is a very good point. the bid should go back to highest bit you had "Before" that person withdrew their bid. IMO anyway. That would an honest business practice from eBay.
 
Whenever I can I bid in the last few seconds of an auction.

Makes it a little harder for the seller to find out my maximum bid 😀

I don't bid too often any more, though. Don't know where to put all the cameras and lenses
 
Andy, nowadays I think more or less like you, but I'd bid up to $250, tops tops. It's within what paypal covers, so worst case scenario it's not a big damage...

The most expensive thing I've ever bought on eBay was my Ricoh GX100, GBP200 total with shipping. Camera is still working perfectly and everything went alright. Beginner luck or not, I'm glad I didn't get scammed.

But I'd never bid on something like an BP M3/M4 or a pretty expensive lens, the risk is too high IMHO.
 
chris00nj said:
So if someone outbids you and then withdraws the bid, are you still required to pay?

I tend to bid the maximum I am willing to pay and then let it ride. I think shilling is only effective if you are prone to getting into bidding wars.
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Yes, the next highest bidder is required to pay.

In my case I was the only bidder, so there was no demand for the item. So, I while I understand the seller's thought process (that it shouldn't matter because I won the auction), I was going to be the winner anyway. He had a sale. He just didn't like the price and wanted more. I felt I shouldn't have to pay a shilled-up price, regardless of my maximum bid, because there was nothing driving the price up (besides the seller's shilling).

Seller's have lots of methods to ensure that they get a certain price for an item (setting starting bids, reserves, BIN, etc.). Shilling is an ebay offense, which obviously doesn't mean squat to ebay. So, it's just another thing that buyers have to protect themselves against.

I don't try to get "steals", just a fair price on an item. Going forward with ebay, I'll be a lot more careful about when and how I use the max bid feature, because I think shilling is fairly common. There's a difference between what I'm willing to pay and what I want to pay. I'm willing to pay $3/gallon of gas, but I'd rather not. If the market is at $2/gallon, it's foolish to pay $3/gallon.


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Beemermark said:
While I do not like the seller's attitude, I do see his point.

I guess my thought process is a lot different than most bidders on eBay. I bid the maximum amount I'm willing to pay for an item. I rarely ever bid again. If someone outbids me by a penny so be it. If it's a shill bidder I could care less since I buy it for what i was willing to pay.

Too often I think buyers, especially of camera gear, are more interested in getting a "steal" rather than actual getting something useful.
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You find no difference between willing to pay an amount and being forced to pay your top amount under fraudulent or gamed conditions? Interesting, but for me, this undercuts all confidence in the bona fides of the auction and the willingness to tell eBay what your max bid is. Should undercut eBay's success in the long run.

I never go to a car dealer and reveal what I want to pay as that will set the floor for the salesman.
 
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