Electro 35 GX questionable metering

[Paolo Bonello]

I just tested my GX side by side with my GT GSN and mg1 which have all been exposing very similarly. Anyhow my GX is a bit out on it's metering. the low lights indicate 1 to stops larger aperture which in turn means at the same aperture as my other Electros it will expose the same image for a shorter duration. I know it's not a scientific test but hey, I can count and it's definitely a little hasty to complete exposure.

OK, the only things I can think of is I'm using LR44 batteries or the meter cell is dodgy.

If it's the meter cell, is that a difficult fix or expensive to fix?

In all other respects it's a lovely little camera but as it's an aperture priority camera it is imperative that it meters correctly especially for colour or slide film. This is my favorite Yashica so I'd really like to get it running. Any advise would be appreciated.

 

[Greyscale]

If it is metering consistently incorrectly, you could try setting the film speed to compensate. Or try silver oxide or lithium batteries and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Frontman]

I would simply adjust the ASA dial to compensate, you should be able to move it in half-stops. Check and make sure that it is set exactly where you want it, sometimes I mistakenly set mine a half-stop off.

The older CC and CCN cameras had a electronic adjustment pot under the baseplate which could be turned to adjust the current going to the meter, but I haven't seen these on the GX. The light baffle can be mechanically modified a bit to adjust metering, but it's easier just to turn the ASA tab.

 

[Mablo]

GX is designed for 1.4V cells. LR44 stack might or might not generate metering error, it's hard to say. I bought a cheap battery adapter from the 'Yashica guy' and had no metering problems. YMMV of course. Btw. I have a pdf copy of the original GX manual. PM me if you'd like to have it.

 

[Paolo Bonello]

Mablo, Thanks for the Manual. Much Appreciated.
It does state that the original batteries are 1.4v Mercury cells (Eveready E640N or Mallory Px640 or equivalent)

Thanks for the responses Frontman and Greyscale, I checked the ASA and seems that I did centre the ASA correctly. If the problem is linear and a simple compensation of the ASA dial will work I guess that could work for me but in all honesty I would really like to use the camera without ASA compensation. In fact I would probably send it for repair because I like to know my user cameras are spot on dialed-in if possible.

It's just that I find it a little difficult to remember the nuances of each camera when I alternate between 4-5 different film cameras because I'm still having a lot of fun trying out all the cameras I've collected. But I can see myself settling down to about 3 regular film cameras. I really want the GX to be one of those.

I must investigate the battery voltage further. I did put new LR44 batteries in it two weeks ago. The lights and battery indicator work but I would like to know with certainty that it is not anything to do with the batteries. The adapter in the camera is a simple spacer made of aluminium cylindrical spacer and aluminium foil in the centre connected to the battery with a tape wrap. Before installing the new batteries the original ones expired. They had no stamps or markings on them. I thought I saw some breather holes on them like wein cells.

I did see a link once for some Japanese made battery adapters that might have voltage dropping circuitry built-in. Not sure where I saw it and if it applies to the GX Electros.
If anyone can remember the site selling those adapters I would appreciate a heads-up.

Cheers,
Paolo

 

[Greyscale]

CRIS adapters:

http://www.criscam.com/mercury_battery_adapters.php

Or use zinc-air hearing aid batteries.

 

[btgc]

I use Electro 35FC on which ISO setting has to be adjusted two stops lower at daylight and three stops at dusk. Essetially it's good for pushing film.

Alkaline LR44 batteries are supposed to drop voltage over time. How soon? Who knows, but voltage curve is rather sloppy. Your measurements may be off after few days. Where I live good SR44 batteries cost almost same as LR44.
I use two SR44's and Schottky diode in 35FC. Haven't tried it with slide film but with negative it meters like a champ.

 

[ColSebastianMoran]

Paolo, I don't think the battery is a problem. I'm getting proper exposures with SR44 batteries.

 

[Paolo Bonello]

Ive ordered a few Hearing aid batteries. That should settle the voltage issue because they are the closest to factory spec even though there are some issues with how long they might last.
I will also try to source some SR44 batteries locally and try those in lieu of the alkaline LR44 batteries.

I'll get back to you guys on this soon.

Cheers,
P

 

[ColSebastianMoran]

Paolo, I Googled to learn about photo batteries.

Silver Oxide holds it's voltage till the end. Alkaline the voltage slopes roughly linearly from starting voltage down to zero. Hearing aid batteries (zinc-air) hold voltage well, but expire in a few weeks once their seal is broken. My conclusions to use Silver Oxide. These are SR44 for the GX and Kodak S28 for the bigger Electros.

If concerned about your meter, try it with Alkalines that you know are fresh.

 

[Paolo Bonello]

btgc, thanks for your response. Wondering what model number Schottky diode you have in your camera. Do you think it will work in my GX? I could easily stack the two batteries on one side of the battery compartment and then run a diode across the other slot. Does the FC model have under/over lights and battery check light? I heard the lights could be too much current draw for the diode but I'm out of my depth to calculate the current draw on such a low current circuit and dont know how to calculate which diode to use to moderate the SR44 battery voltage (1.55v) down to 1.4v. I can however do soldering.

I did buy some hearing aid batteries but I ordered the wrong size so for the moment cannot test with the correct factory spec voltage.

ColSebastianMoran, Thanks for the advise. I did find some SR44 silveroxide batteries but I'm finding now that the metering is slightly off in the opposite direction but less difference than before. Maybe 1/2 to 1 stop over-exposed now. (longer shutter open time tested at f16 listening to the sound, compared with my MG1 and Electro GSN which I know perform exactly the same and expose fine) I would really like to know for certain. Perhaps once I know I've got the voltage 100% sorted. You guys probably think I'm fussing about nothing but I've said it before, this is the camera I like using and I'd really like it to work without any strange metering nuances that I have to remember and compensate for all the time.

My question to those who have done camera repair. Does such a small difference (1.5v) make a difference to the meter in the Electro GX or any Electro for that matter? The opinions vary I think so I'd like to know if it has ever been properly bench tested and what the results were.

 

[Paolo Bonello]

More on this,
I have come to the conclusion that the meter is very sensitive to voltage differences outside factory spec. I guess there just has not been a lot of talk about such issues.

So seeing that I want to make this an everyday user and don't like the idea of replacing zinc/air batteries every two weeks I'm going to ship it to my camera repair guy in Melbourne for a look over. He already has two of my Yashicamat's so it's going to be a nice bill once he is done. 🙁 Yoshi Nagami has a very good reputation in Melborne with reasonable pricing unlike the repair places I have found in Sydney. He said he will test it for speed and calibrate it to SR44 batteries if possible or at least tell me the exact asa correction to factor in. He agreed in his best and most polite Japanese accent english that the zinc air batteries do not last long and are probably not the best to use. I do hope it can be calibrated although Frontman has indicated earlier in this thread that it does not have a calibrating adjustment so I'm not expecting miracles.

 

[btgc]

Paolo, I'm very far from electricity so I could be wrong in my post. All I know about this I have learned from batt-adapt-US.pdf (available on Net) and for two cells I use 1N4148 silicon-diode. Not sure this is Schottky diode, this is called switchdiode - but whatever, if it works.

35FC has exposure lights and also B.C. - lamp doesn't light up anymore. Probably you know GSN (I mean all large body Electro RF series) loose B.C. light almost instantly (or never have) with modern battery substitutes but still expose just fine. Do not judge by B.C. light.

 

[Paolo Bonello]

Paolo, I'm very far from electricity so I could be wrong in my post. All I know about this I have learned from batt-adapt-US.pdf (available on Net) and for two cells I use 1N4148 silicon-diode. Not sure this is Schottky diode, this is called switchdiode - but whatever, if it works.

35FC has exposure lights and also B.C. - lamp doesn't light up anymore. Probably you know GSN (I mean all large body Electro RF series) loose B.C. light almost instantly (or never have) with modern battery substitutes but still expose just fine. Do not judge by B.C. light.

Thanks a lot for that info. I read the PDF and it looked really complicated until I figured I could simply wire up the diode in the camera. That diode you recommend was said to be for a two battery setup which is just right for the GX it seems.

I will try this before I send the camera away to be tested. A one dollar diode could save me a packet! fingers crossed.

 

[Keith]

Not a Yashica but if I put LR44's in my OM-2 it will start metering a stop out after a week, even if the camera hasn't been used ... SR44's, no problem!

 

[Paolo Bonello]

Not a Yashica but if I put LR44's in my OM-2 it will start metering a stop out after a week, even if the camera hasn't been used ... SR44's, no problem!

Keith, check out the last post on this page. I just found it about an hour ago. Olympus specific battery voltage test. http://www.apug.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-28502-p-2.html

 

[btgc]

I figured I could simply wire up the diode in the camera.

If I can, I don't solder diode into circuitry but build into adapter. Thus I can reuse it between cameras, yet I'm better at welding than soldering. Fingers crossed!

 

[Paolo Bonello]

If I can, I don't solder diode into circuitry but build into adapter. Thus I can reuse it between cameras, yet I'm better at welding than soldering. Fingers crossed!

To test it without soldering I could make a plug with the diode in it that fits in one side of the battery compartment with a small peice of dowel. then stack the two batteries together in the other slot for the batteries.

 

[Frontman]

btgc, thanks for your response. Wondering what model number Schottky diode you have in your camera. Do you think it will work in my GX? I could easily stack the two batteries on one side of the battery compartment and then run a diode across the other slot. Does the FC model have under/over lights and battery check light? I heard the lights could be too much current draw for the diode but I'm out of my depth to calculate the current draw on such a low current circuit and dont know how to calculate which diode to use to moderate the SR44 battery voltage (1.55v) down to 1.4v. I can however do soldering.

I did buy some hearing aid batteries but I ordered the wrong size so for the moment cannot test with the correct factory spec voltage.

ColSebastianMoran, Thanks for the advise. I did find some SR44 silveroxide batteries but I'm finding now that the metering is slightly off in the opposite direction but less difference than before. Maybe 1/2 to 1 stop over-exposed now. (longer shutter open time tested at f16 listening to the sound, compared with my MG1 and Electro GSN which I know perform exactly the same and expose fine) I would really like to know for certain. Perhaps once I know I've got the voltage 100% sorted. You guys probably think I'm fussing about nothing but I've said it before, this is the camera I like using and I'd really like it to work without any strange metering nuances that I have to remember and compensate for all the time.

My question to those who have done camera repair. Does such a small difference (1.5v) make a difference to the meter in the Electro GX or any Electro for that matter? The opinions vary I think so I'd like to know if it has ever been properly bench tested and what the results were.

I have repaired many GX cameras, and I have had no problems when using LR44 or SR44 batteries. I wouldn't recommend using battery adapters because in my experience (I have had 20 or so GX cameras) they work perfectly well without them.

Have your tried running a roll of film through your GX to see how well it works? The GX uses a different shutter and meter design than your other Electros, it may actually work pretty well.

On the ASA dial, 800 is the last setting, you should be one click away from 800. It is possible to center the tab on 400. But the tab should be centered on the line, not the number. Normally the meter on the GX is better than that on the GSN or MG1, maybe it's your other two cameras which are off.

 

[Paolo Bonello]

Thanks for the reply frontman. I read the manual and it said to line up the tab with the figure for ASA in perfect alignment. They even put a picture of the numbers lining up adjacent to the tab. That seems different to what you suggest. I'm a little confused.

My main assumption here is that comparing this camera to two others I am getting longer time open for the shutter at the same F stop. I assume they should be around the same speed but it sounds like it is out by a considerable amount. I have the other two Electros working to the same speeds as each other and results of prints are reasonable but I cannot be 100% certain if they are perfectly to spec.

I will send away the GX for a CLA and ask for a bench test for correct exposure. That feels right to me. I dont mind spending on CLA for my user cameras.

I have a roll I ran at 400asa which I have not scanned yet. They were done with fresh Alkaline batteries, not the SR44's.