Elmar Red Dial w/o Serial Number?

[xia_ke]

I have a Red Dial Elmar that came with a IIIg that dates to 1957. I've had a few Elmars pass through my hands and the serial number has always been on the aperture adjustment ring. However, this example has no serial number there. The ring shows no signs of having the number warn or filed off, the lens is in excellent condition. Is there any other place where the serial number would have been engraved on this version?

 

[Dralowid]

I have heard of this before.

It is alleged that some red dials are converted earlier lenses that were originally unnumbered.

Although I certainly agree that lenses were converted, to me this stretches things a little.

Wouldn't worry either way

 

[xia_ke]

Thanks Dralowid. Definitely not worried about it. More curious about its history. Wasn't sure if maybe the adjustment ring had been swapped out at some point during servicing or something similar. The glass is definitely post war as it is coated.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I have a Red Dial Elmar. I've had a few Elmars pass through my hands and the serial number has always been on the aperture adjustment ring. However, this example has no serial number there.

There are two types of "red scale Elmars":

1. Conversions of old lenses from before the war. Usually unnumbered. They are coated during their conversion at Leitz. You can recognize them easily, because they have a black, diamond shaped distance index mark in between the red dept of field numerals.

2. Lenses with a new optical formula. They are slightly longer than type 1. They are numbered on the black ring around the front lens. You can recognize them easily because they have a black triangular distance index mark in between the red dept of field numerals.

Erik.

 

[xia_ke]

Thanks Erik,

That thickens the plot though as I have coated and no serial number, but a triangle index mark. Here is a pic of my example.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I have coated and no serial number, but a triangle index mark.

The paint of the black ring around your front lens shows wear. Maybe the serial number is wiped out by the wear. It should be there! The numerals are very, very small.

Yours is a "real" red scale Elmar (new formula), that's clear.

Erik.

 

[xia_ke]

Hi Erik,

Thank you again for helping with this mystery 🙂 The other Elmars I have handled have had some depth to the engraving of the serial numbers. While this one shows brassing on the aperture adjustment ring, it is by no means worn down enough to have completely removed all trace of the serial number. If one of these was sent for CLA is it possible that the ring could have been replaced?

 

[Erik van Straten]

it is by no means worn down enough to have completely removed all trace of the serial number

Did you look with a loupe?

I don't think the ring is replaced when having a CLA. No need for that. It could be that the engraving of the serial number was made only into the paint and the brass remained untouched. Maybe the serial number is gone forever now.

Erik.

 

[xia_ke]

No loupe, but with an iPhone and a bit of tweaking in LR, look what we have here...

 

[HuubL]

Great cameras those iPhones, aren't they! 🙂🙂🙂

 

[xia_ke]

I've loved everything about them except the cameras. The more I use the Camera+ app though for practical applications such as this, it is definitely growing on me.

On a side note I apparently need to get my eyes checked because I could not see that at all with the naked eye... 🙁

 

[Luddite Frank]

I think you can be excused for not seeing that with the naked eye... looks even smaller than the serial # on my 1932 Nickel Elmar / 11 o'clock inf. lock.

😎

 

[Steve Bellayr]

I had a similar problem with a Hektor 28mm f6.3 pre-war. The serial number is on the back on the lens in the black portion of the metal. I need a magnifying glass to read it.

 

[Dralowid]

Erik,

Thanks for the tip regarding index marks, didn't know that one!

Michael

 

[MaZo]

There are two types of "red scale Elmars":

1. Conversions of old lenses from before the war. Usually unnumbered. They are coated during their conversion at Leitz. You can recognize them easily, because they have a black, diamond shaped distance index mark in between the red dept of field numerals.

2. Lenses with a new optical formula. They are slightly longer than type 1. They are numbered on the black ring around the front lens. You can recognize them easily because they have a black triangular distance index mark in between the red dept of field numerals.

Erik.

Let me refresh the thread with this question: I just bought red scale Elmar which - according to above - would have to be a converted one (it has diamond shaped distance mark between red numbers). However it is not an unnumbered lens. On the contrary, it has a 1952 year number on the front ring (1010xxx - valid Elmar no.). Is it some hybrid lens then?

 

[Erik van Straten]

Let me refresh the thread with this question: I just bought red scale Elmar which - according to above - would have to be a converted one (it has diamond shaped distance mark between red numbers). However it is not an unnumbered lens. On the contrary, it has a 1952 year number on the front ring (1010xxx - valid Elmar no.). Is it some hybrid lens then?

In fact anything is possible. The part with the numerals can be replaced at some time. To know if your lens is a "true" red scale Elmar the length of the tube is important; these are longer.

Erik.