ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
My Omega B600 is compact and stores easily in my bedroom closet
when not in use in my bathroom/part-time darkroom.
Omega enlargers, parts and accessories are cheap and plentiful on eBay.
Chris
when not in use in my bathroom/part-time darkroom.
Omega enlargers, parts and accessories are cheap and plentiful on eBay.
Chris
L. M. Tu
Established
IF (possibly a really big if...) you have the space, you might want to look for one made by Omega or Beseler that can handle every film size up to 4x5. As others have said, they are common and dirt cheap, or sometimes free. I have a Beseler 45M and an Omega D2V. I will suggest that the D2V is the model to get. I bought mine for $125 a few years ago from an ad in craigslist. First, Omegas can be aligned so that every stage (negative and lens carriers and baseboard) is level. Another reason: there is a great source of advice, support and new and used parts for them; just take a look at classic-enlargers.com. As far as I know, there is no comparable resource for any other brand of enlarger. And forget about those enlargers that can only do 35mm 
.
.Edward C. Zimmermann
Nerd
Bathrooms tend--- even large ones--- to not be overly generous in space for darkrooms.
Why? Unless one is currently--- or has immediate short term plans--- using 4x5" there is absolutely no benefit for but, in general, a number of significant drawbacks to opting for a 4x5" enlarger especially if one is just starting off and mainly printing 8x10" from 24x36 negatives.
Because 1) they are larger than people need. 2) There is a movement away from 4x5" 3) Those who shoot large format (including 4x5") tend to want to "upgrade" to something better.
Most are ill-aligned. While they can be aligned moving them about and carrying them from room to room--- as is common in bathroom set-ups--- will typically knock them back out of critical alignment. Luckily for 8x10" prints from 35mm negatives critical alignment is.. not that critical.. Enlargers like the Valloy--- just for reference--- are always in sufficient alignment (unless someone took a hammer to it and cracked the cast iron frame). They may lack perspective correction but "doing it right" demands more than just a tilting enlarger head but also movements in the camera..
Why? If one is only printing 35mm then 35mm enlargers are just the right fit. I also personally find the ergonomics on some 35mm enlarger much better for printing 35mm than larger format enlargers--- that's why I have a Focomat 1c in my darkroom set-up alongside Durst 900 and Minox enlargers.And forget about those enlargers that can only do 35mm
Seriously.. If someone is starting off and wants to print 35mm negatives in their bathroom I don't see the purpose of suggesting a 4x5" beast.
PMCC
Late adopter.
In principle I can concede the wisdom of Edward C. Zimmerman's post, but I am less vehement about it than he is. In reality, I think it's more practical to make do with whatever bargain (used enlargers are much devalued from their original cost) may come your way, provided it fits in your space. I had an offer of a free, fully equipped Durst Laborator 1200, a very capable but gigantic multi-format enlarger, but I was not prepared to dedicate the real estate to it. Instead, I acquired two enlargers in organic progression: initially a Focomat Ic for my 35mm work, followed by an Omega D2V next to it as I ventured into 6x6 and 6x7 work. The latter is 4x5 capable, but I don't make use of that.
dap
Established
I would agree with you on this one. The old advice to buy an enlarger that will handle all the formats that you "might" use in the future (ie. buy as big as you can) is outdated. Back when people recommended "buying big", enlargers were VERY expensive and were considered a one time investment. With the price of 2nd hand enlargers being as cheap as they are today you have the luxury of trading up very cheaply if you outgrow your current enlarger.
As far as a movement away from 4x5 I would disagree. While you don't see a ton of people out on the street lugging 4x5 cameras around, there is fanatical following for that format. The 4x5 format is extremely flexible and offers many of the benefits of smaller and larger formats (small enough where it can still be handheld if an appropriate camera is used, large enough to make advanced printing techniques and negative retouching feasible). I would put money down that when film starts becoming rare that 4x5 will be the last format standing (and when 4x5 film dies I can still make glass plates and continue to use my equipment).
Edward C. Zimmermann
Nerd
While those that today shoot 4x5" are more "fanatical" than those of yesteryears they are also significantly fewer in number. Just a few years ago 4x5" was a "bread and butter" format for everything from electron micro-photography to astro-photography to industrial.. not to mention the legion of reporters and forensic photographers with their Graflex (Crown/Speed Graphics) and Linhof Technikas.. and Polaroids.. Those days are gone.. even if a few photogs like David Burnett--- who also likes to use Holgas--- and ....
Well.. It'll be 35mm.. simply put.. its cine that is still driving the car..
P.S.: Just a side note.. More film is probably being run through Holgas than 4x5" cameras.. Holgas, Lomos and other "toy" cameras are by far one of the largest motors behind the current still film sales... The only reason that commercial supplies of 4x5" might run longer than 120 format is not the film but the supply of paper backing!
aizan
Veteran
pros might not use 4x5 much, but the proportion of photography enthusiasts who shoot 4x5 has gone up a lot. practically anyone can shoot 4x5 now.
then again, there are real benefits to buying smaller enlargers, especially if your bathroom doubles as an impromptu darkroom. 35mm enlargers are tiny, and 6x6 enlargers are also reasonably sized. 6x7 and 6x9 are significantly bulkier, though.
Morca007
Matt
And can either of you back up your arguments about 4x5 usage with anything but anecdotes?
dap
Established
Well...every film format has significantly fewer users than yesteryear - it is not just a 4x5 problem. Do I see any major film formats being dropped in the near future? Color maybe, but I cant see any major formats being dropped in B&W. But looking into the distant future...something has got to give. Lets face it - for all intensive purposes film is obsolete. Digital output is becoming more cost effective than film, it is more efficient in time and materials than film, and it offers image quality that is similar to film (that "film" look can even be duplicated by digital - it may not be exact but it is close enough for most). If a film format is going to find active users in the future it has to offer something that digital doesn't. It is my opinion that in the future, the process of producing the prints will become a larger and larger part of the draw of film photography. The hands-on craft will win a following. Experimentation with alternative processes will become a much larger part of the hobby. Large format sheet film lends itself to this sensibility more so than any other format (I mention 4x5 only because it is the most accessible of the large format sheet film sizes - it is kind of like the large format gateway drug).
And this is coming from somebody who rarely if ever shoots large format film (I develop a couple of sheets a year max).
I hope that you're right - 35mm is my favorite format. If cinema is 35mm film's savior then I don't feel too confident in light of the growing acceptance of digital film making and distribution. How many years before the majority of movies are fully digital products?
Sounds like a press release from the lomography website. If you told me that more "toy" cameras were sold than any other type of new film camera I would believe you, but to say that they are one of the largest driving forces for still film sales seems like a stretch. Maybe I'm wrong on this one - it happens all the time
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dap
Established
If you have any cold hard facts to offer I would love to hear them.
aizan
Veteran
hmm...what else is there to go on but anecdotes? i've never seen a good survey.
but swing by the camera shop, the darkrooms at local colleges, or internet forums, photo sharing sites, and blogs, and you'll an unusually high number of amateur large format photographers. furthermore, there are many younger professionals who shoot large format, to say nothing of young artists. the affordability of large format equipment is obviously a part of why it's so popular.
but swing by the camera shop, the darkrooms at local colleges, or internet forums, photo sharing sites, and blogs, and you'll an unusually high number of amateur large format photographers. furthermore, there are many younger professionals who shoot large format, to say nothing of young artists. the affordability of large format equipment is obviously a part of why it's so popular.
Edward C. Zimmermann
Nerd
According to several film producers the numbers have not only stabilized but are inching upwards...
Near? But the largest threat is currently facing 120 film due to the need for the paper backing.
But.. of course.. Formats are and will be dropped.. The standard program of sheet films has been radically cut by nearly every maker and is being kept alive by a number of advance order schemes. A master roll is a lot of film!
Its not. Its still alive and kicking in a number of applications such as archiving (microfilm), motion pictures and even traffic (despite a number of new digital approaches).
Digital can't (and won't) cut the grade a long time in a number of applications especially projection. Beyond even the no-holes-bared-cost-what-it-costs digital cine projector systems (which still don't reach the level of film projection) the single 2K (4Mpixel) projection units (costing $10K and more) don't provide anywhere near the resolution etc. of a 24x36mm projected slide. And the cinemas? How can a $150,000 USD 4K (4096x2400) compare to a good 35mm or 70mm cine print? In still photographic terms: half-frame (or larger) versus 8 Mpixel. Some of the U.S. movie theatre chains like AMC might be switching their postage stamp megaplexes over to digital over the next 2 years but I don't see that happening across the globe anytime in the foreseeable future.
That's where the Lomos sing their song..
I think the alt-process scene hit its height back in the 1970s.. It comes back, of course, in cycles... but unfortunately many of the processes are becoming quite difficult for people to perform due to rising costs (gold, platinum), availability (chrome salts such as Potassium Dichromate for bromoil and a number of other processes), suitable rooms disappearing from campuses and schools and... work place regulation (EPA regulations, legislation, OSHA enforcement, liability etc.). What has effected mainstream photographic product availability has and will...
Film is not made digital.. Its edited. Digital is part of the workflow but capture and distribution is still film. HDTV is an advancement of video. While some films are being distributed digitally its not an alternative for most cinemas to projection just as ebooks has not dented the demand for paper by book production--- in fact the digitalization and centralization of printing has significantly eased the cost of market entry and increased the potential for profit (alongside Internet product substitution one of the main worries of traditional publishing houses who see their market scale advantage under threat).
When the cinemas are banished from cities, towns and villages. Cinemas continue to exist because they offer something that watching TV--- increasingly 1080p HDTV, surround sound and even 3D--- at home does not offer. If and when digital cinema systems are cost effective enough for mass utilization that same technology will push up the envelope in the home entertainment sector.. I don't see the economy of scale.. and so for a long long time I think we'll still see film running through projectors. If we look at the current numbers.. the demand for cine print materials is at a level significantly above those of any past generation!
Just ask companies like Maco (Rollei, Lomo brand films) about their sales! I honestly don't understand it either but the "fad" is big.
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Fawley
Well-known
I own a like new Omega D2V and while it is a very good enlarger and wonderful for big enlargements, it is also HUGE and totally inappropriate for a bathroom. I also own a Durst M600, which is emminently suitable for a bathroom due to its ease of takedown and compactness for storage. Of the two, I actually prefer to use the Durst. It is easier to focus really sharp and I love the glass negative carrier. Get a Durst and a top quality lense like a Nikor. There are plenty of Durst's around still in their original boxes, which makes storage easier.
Morca007
Matt
Roger Hicks
Veteran
The 'facts' are mostly commercially confidential and difficult or impossible to winkle out directly. Most of those who report stabilization or rises in film use are retailers, reflecting a simple truth: fewer places to buy = more business for those who are still selling.For the rest. there's a certain amount of wishful thinking and 'talking up'.
This is not from a 'film basher'. Rather, the opposite. I believe film has many decades left yet. But I don't believe there is a major renaissance. And I am reasonably close to a lot of people in the industry.
Cheers,
R.
This is not from a 'film basher'. Rather, the opposite. I believe film has many decades left yet. But I don't believe there is a major renaissance. And I am reasonably close to a lot of people in the industry.
Cheers,
R.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Srtiwari: If you are serious about buying an enlarger (possibly including darkroom equipment) I suggest you call:
1) Greg at Orlando Camera Exchange (used photo equip dealer) at 407-622-1299
2) Michael at Kiwi Camera Service (photo equip repair but has some rebuilt enlargers) at 321-303-2757.
Both are in Winter Park just off I-4 about 2 blocks from each other. Well worth the 100 mile drive up the Turnpike if you are actually wanting to buy something. I saw both today and both have used enlargers.
I can highly recommend both places. I will add that Greg, Michael and I are all good friends with each other.
Note: Greg will be closed this coming Saturday 10/9/10 because they are repaving his parking lot.
Edward C. Zimmermann
Nerd
Yes and no.
Actually a number of public (and some less than public) reports are from Kodak, Mahn (Maco) and Ilford. The market remains totally unstable but most of the market indicators seems to suggest that the bottom might have been reached. Lets not forget that the current generation of cell telephones in Europe (increasingly smartphones) have 5 Mpixel sensors and 12 Mpixel (such as the long awaited Nokia N8) are not far away. This means effectively that digital image capture--- sufficient for those snapshots that were the bread and butter of the large labs--- are in "everyones" pockets.
In the U.S. this has been tied into Lomo and schools. In Germany its a bit more complicated since cheap film processing is still widely available from nearly every drugstore chain and most sell color, slide and B&W--- DM evens stocks APX-100.
Part of the continued problem in Europe is that people don't print their digital pictures and the few they might print tend to be produced via the instant Kiosks. CeWe, for example, has a market share of around 50% the photo processing in Germany and a European market share of nearly 40%. According to their annual report they printed 1 billion photos in the first half of this year--- in 2004, by comparison, they printed 3.5 billion photographs. Of these (again according to their public record) 19% were this year from film: that's still 190 million or ~6 million rolls of film for the first half of the year. Between 2001 and 2008 the decline in film sales in Germany was 84% (according to the German film industry association). The numbers from the European photo-finishers all seem to indicate a stabilization if not even a slight growth of film consumption. CeWe also sees the migration to digital as completed. The markets are now consolidated and min. growth of 3%-5% are in everyone's forecasts..
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Talking to film manufacturers at photokina we found no consensus. Remove the 'talking up', and you are left with the general view that film will be around for a VERY long time yet (except perhaps in Iran, where they give their coating line just a few years) but that there is no major renaissance (I chose my words carefully). In other words, no one is betting that present upturns in some areas and among some products (not all) represent a long term trend, instead of being experimental error and natural variation. On the other hand, no-one (except the Iranians, again) sees further catastrophic decline.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.