Crane
Member
I've been using Lightroom since its first iteration, and have been very happy with the results it produces from RD-1 files. However, having switched to Lightroom 1.1., I find that the new sharpening functionality has some kind of baseline smoothing going on, prior to any noise reduction I might apply. I am familiar with the new controls, and these work very well in ACR 4.1., but in Lightroom, something else is happening to the file that's outside of my control. The results are 'painterly', on images containing fine details. It's not a question of my being heavy-handed in my application of the sharpening, since I can obtain excellent results in ACR. 4.1., using my approach.
Others are noting this smoothing effect with Canon files, and there is a longish thread concerning this in the Adobe Lightroom user-to-user forum.
My NEF and .DCS files process very well, but I am forced to conclude that Lightroom is now useless with my RD-1 files. Fortunately, I still have version 1, and intend to run that as a separate database for the Epson files.
Has anyone here noticed the issue I refer to? Perhaps you have a workaround you can share? Presently, I'm stumped.
Thanks,
Crane
Others are noting this smoothing effect with Canon files, and there is a longish thread concerning this in the Adobe Lightroom user-to-user forum.
My NEF and .DCS files process very well, but I am forced to conclude that Lightroom is now useless with my RD-1 files. Fortunately, I still have version 1, and intend to run that as a separate database for the Epson files.
Has anyone here noticed the issue I refer to? Perhaps you have a workaround you can share? Presently, I'm stumped.
Thanks,
Crane
mwooten
light user
I was about to up-grade my copy of Lightroom to the v1.1 until I too read the thread in the Adobe forums. The v1.1 does seem to a little too heavy with the noise smoothing. The examples posted on that forum that stood out were of a little girl. With v1, the fine hairs were crisp. However, the v1.1 softened those same hairs noticeably.
I've not downloaded v1.1 yet, and may just download the trial version. I do wonder if LR v1.1 has the same "noise reduction" sliders in the detail panel as does v1, and if that might be adjusted to reduce the softening effect.
I've not downloaded v1.1 yet, and may just download the trial version. I do wonder if LR v1.1 has the same "noise reduction" sliders in the detail panel as does v1, and if that might be adjusted to reduce the softening effect.
IGMeanwell
Well-known
1.1 has a ton of good changes
I didn't see any real difference with noise reduction and the slider remains
BTW, the clarity tool is pretty sweet
Try going through with one of the presets and then working backwards to see if that doesn't help ... many of those presets have more aggressive sharpening and less noise reduction
I didn't see any real difference with noise reduction and the slider remains
BTW, the clarity tool is pretty sweet
Try going through with one of the presets and then working backwards to see if that doesn't help ... many of those presets have more aggressive sharpening and less noise reduction
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Crane
Member
Lightroom v. 1.1. Sharpening
Lightroom v. 1.1. Sharpening
There is definitely some smoothing going on, prior to any user-invoked noise reduction. It's as some of the threads describe on the Adobe forum, one either likes the new smoothness, or sees it as interfering with one's subjective response to the given image as a 'photograph', rather than an 'illustration'. I seem to need that little bit of noise that the new algorythm is removing. I would like the option of turning-off this baseline smoothing.
The effect is only noticable with my RD-1 files, and some Canon files I have been sent. My partner, here, can't see a difference between a file processed in LR 1.0. and LR 1.1., and ran 'blind' tests on me, yesterday, defying me to tell which print had been through which version. I scored four out of four.
I'm going to shut-up about it, as I can see that the issue is deep into the twilit territory of subjectivity. There's plenty to like in the new version LR, and it is sparkling in its handling of our NEF and DCS files. We take delivery of an Aptus 65, on Monday, so next week is going to be the real acid test for us.
My preference is to stay with LR 1.0. for RD-1 processing, but I would encourage anyone to download the LR upgrade and see if they like, or can even see the 'new' look of the RD-1 output.
Thanks for the replies to my thread. I'm new here, and there's a nice, calm 'feel' to this forum that I appreciate.
Regards,
Crane
Lightroom v. 1.1. Sharpening
There is definitely some smoothing going on, prior to any user-invoked noise reduction. It's as some of the threads describe on the Adobe forum, one either likes the new smoothness, or sees it as interfering with one's subjective response to the given image as a 'photograph', rather than an 'illustration'. I seem to need that little bit of noise that the new algorythm is removing. I would like the option of turning-off this baseline smoothing.
The effect is only noticable with my RD-1 files, and some Canon files I have been sent. My partner, here, can't see a difference between a file processed in LR 1.0. and LR 1.1., and ran 'blind' tests on me, yesterday, defying me to tell which print had been through which version. I scored four out of four.
I'm going to shut-up about it, as I can see that the issue is deep into the twilit territory of subjectivity. There's plenty to like in the new version LR, and it is sparkling in its handling of our NEF and DCS files. We take delivery of an Aptus 65, on Monday, so next week is going to be the real acid test for us.
My preference is to stay with LR 1.0. for RD-1 processing, but I would encourage anyone to download the LR upgrade and see if they like, or can even see the 'new' look of the RD-1 output.
Thanks for the replies to my thread. I'm new here, and there's a nice, calm 'feel' to this forum that I appreciate.
Regards,
Crane
Crane
Member
Lightroom v.1.1. Sharpening and Higher ISO Images
Lightroom v.1.1. Sharpening and Higher ISO Images
Ran some more tests, today. I think I was right about the almost complete absence of noise the RD-1 ISO 200 files, when processed through LR 1.1., having something to do with my negative response to them. I shot a job in gloomy weather, this morning, and cranked the ISO to 400 and 800. When I processed these in LR 1.1., I liked the results. Either they are surviving the baseline smoothing better, or else the presence of noise (greatly reduced at these ISO settings, in comparison LR 1.0., by the way) in the images is what I am responding to, positively.
The job contains very fine detail subjects, and they really hold-up. In fact, I like the look of the ISO 400 shots so much that I'm wondering if I might use the setting as my default on the RD-1 bodies.
I came to the RD-1 very late, but I am loving the little thing. Is that really the D100's sensor in their? If my D100s had produced files like I've been seeing, I may never have moved to the D1X and beyond.
No more work, today. It's almost time for the Dr Who finale...
Crane
Lightroom v.1.1. Sharpening and Higher ISO Images
Ran some more tests, today. I think I was right about the almost complete absence of noise the RD-1 ISO 200 files, when processed through LR 1.1., having something to do with my negative response to them. I shot a job in gloomy weather, this morning, and cranked the ISO to 400 and 800. When I processed these in LR 1.1., I liked the results. Either they are surviving the baseline smoothing better, or else the presence of noise (greatly reduced at these ISO settings, in comparison LR 1.0., by the way) in the images is what I am responding to, positively.
The job contains very fine detail subjects, and they really hold-up. In fact, I like the look of the ISO 400 shots so much that I'm wondering if I might use the setting as my default on the RD-1 bodies.
I came to the RD-1 very late, but I am loving the little thing. Is that really the D100's sensor in their? If my D100s had produced files like I've been seeing, I may never have moved to the D1X and beyond.
No more work, today. It's almost time for the Dr Who finale...
Crane
M4streetshooter
Tourist Thru Life
I am using 1.1 and kinda like all the changes. I do not see a problem with noise or sharpening. I export to PS CS3 and then run Noise Ninja that cleans thing up nicely. In Lightroom as in Camera Raw...I keep the default sharpening at 25....sometimes in CR, I step it up to 50 and then in PS, apply sharpening....works great. My buddy also is using 1.1 and he's not having any issues either....
probably better to use a plug in in PS for noise controll...I would never trust either Lightroom or PS for that task...later don
probably better to use a plug in in PS for noise controll...I would never trust either Lightroom or PS for that task...later don
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
I haven't noticed any issues with excessively 'smooth' sharpening in my R-D 1/Lightroom 1.1 files either. It may be because I shoot mostly at EI 1600... but I suspect some of the discussion on other forums has been because the defaults may be different, and since there are now four sharpness controls it's harder for people to replicate the settings that produced the results they liked in 1.0.
Whatever you're doing to the sliders, remember that Lightroom doesn't do anything to the actual data in your original raw or DNG files. It just stores your settings in a database and applies them 'on the fly' as you view or export the files. So even if you don't like the default effect, you don't need to worry that your original files are being "oversmoothed" -- you can still always go back to the original data in another editor if Lightroom isn't giving you the result you want.
Whatever you're doing to the sliders, remember that Lightroom doesn't do anything to the actual data in your original raw or DNG files. It just stores your settings in a database and applies them 'on the fly' as you view or export the files. So even if you don't like the default effect, you don't need to worry that your original files are being "oversmoothed" -- you can still always go back to the original data in another editor if Lightroom isn't giving you the result you want.
Crane
Member
What I've been trying to explain is pretty much covered in the Adobe Lightroom User to User forum. Thomas Knoll has spoken of the change in algorythm in both ACR 4.1. and LR 1.1. It seems that some files will appear much 'cleaner', with low ISO captures, than they were in ACR 4.O. and LR 1.0., even if application noise reduction set is to zero. It is this lack of baseline noise, which, perhaps spuriously, contributes to the subjective response, in some viewers, that a file is revealing better detail. Not everyone responds to the presence or absence of noise in the same way.
I am only noting the effect on ISO 200 files from the RD-1. I know I don't like the new, apparent smoothness of these files under LR 1.1. In my perception, they look like shots from an early Canon point and shoot with its in-camera noise reduction switched on. If I process the same file in both versions of Lightroom, with all noise reduction and sharpening off, the version 1.1. file is smoother and looks, to my eye, like a lifeless, though beautifully-executed illustration, while the version 1.0 file looks like, well, like a 'photograph'. The higher ISO files are looking really good under LR 1.1., however. I'm sure this is due to my response to the presence of some noise in those files.
To be honest, I can't stand the look of any noise reduction, and often shoot the D2X at the dreaded ISO 800, leaving the noise in the image, as is. Even the excellent and flexible Noise Ninja brings a certain look to a file that I would rather be without. I guess the 'improved' smoothing in LR and ACR activates this dislike in me.
Crane
I am only noting the effect on ISO 200 files from the RD-1. I know I don't like the new, apparent smoothness of these files under LR 1.1. In my perception, they look like shots from an early Canon point and shoot with its in-camera noise reduction switched on. If I process the same file in both versions of Lightroom, with all noise reduction and sharpening off, the version 1.1. file is smoother and looks, to my eye, like a lifeless, though beautifully-executed illustration, while the version 1.0 file looks like, well, like a 'photograph'. The higher ISO files are looking really good under LR 1.1., however. I'm sure this is due to my response to the presence of some noise in those files.
To be honest, I can't stand the look of any noise reduction, and often shoot the D2X at the dreaded ISO 800, leaving the noise in the image, as is. Even the excellent and flexible Noise Ninja brings a certain look to a file that I would rather be without. I guess the 'improved' smoothing in LR and ACR activates this dislike in me.
Crane
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