Epson Scanning - Histogram Dialog

J

Jhausler

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Have a quick question about the histogram dialog on the Epson Scanning software.

I've been using a v500 for close to a year now and I find that while some of my scans look well exposed, many appear very underexposed. I've been following the Kenleegallery guide.

Essentially, in the histogram dialog, i move the white and black points to the ends of where the data is. I set the output to 0 and 255, then i move the mid point to 1.0.

Then i work the scan in lightroom. Does the above method seem right?

Thanks,
Jesse
 
Ranchu said:
You could try this..Generally though if it looks underexposed, it is. There is a built in s curve called autoexposure level in configuration. It could be that, put it on low for flat no s curve..

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94126
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I did read through that last night.

I'm mainly curious if it seems correct from a technical standpoint to set midpoint to 1 and the range from 0-255.

If those are different, is there loss? Most of my images look fine when Epson has midpoint set to say 1.4 but when i slide it to 1 is when it looks under.
 
I have not had much experience with ken lee's workflow, or setting the output points in that manner. My feeling is that the people who designed the scanner probably know where to set the output levels. I have had no problems with where Epson sets them. There is a large hype machine developed by third party software vendors like Adobe and their hangers on to get everyone to believe that camera (and scanner) manufacturers don't know what they're doing. It helps sell things.
 
Thanks both of you, I read and used Ranchu's WF from his previous post. But I have been wondering about the auto settings on the histogram, so Ken Lee will help too. I have something to read today as the Library was closed yesterday for MLK.
 
I use VueScan and am not familiar with the specific controls provided by Epson. However, with any scan software, I use the same methodology: scan to capture all the data, render in image processing where you have the most control.

What this means is that I observe where the data is using the histogram and set the scanning app's controls to 'window' the data with a little room to spare. The results often look a little dark and flat straight out of the scanner. I then use LR (or whatever other image processing sw comes to hand) to set the black point, white point, overall brightness, and mid-tone curves. Those are the basics, and they can be applied in batch to all similar exposures as a group. From there, individual exposures get customized treatment.

It sounds like a good bit of work, but in reality I rarely spend more than a minute on any given photo, and often quite a bit less. The real key is getting good exposures to begin with so that basic scanning does 90% of the job... :)

G
 
Why not just do all of this in Lightroom? You are making interim software adjustments that you cannot see the impact nor can you reverse using the crude software built into the scan driver. Just insure the scan driver software does not clip the ends of the histogram so it deletes data and that is all it is good for. BTW, same for Vuescan.

Remember none of this has any impact on the data gathered by the scanner itself and transferred to the CPU. Leave all the scan driver software adjustments for those who do not use an image editor, such as Lightroom or Photoshop. Those are the people it is there for.

edit: same as what Godfrey said as I was typing this.
 
Thanks Godfrey and Bob. That's what I was thinking.

Am I good believing that in Epson setting midpoint to 1.0 and range from 0-255 that I'm capturing all available data? That is my goal..

Now i just need to learn how to work the tone curve in LR better. Today I mainly just use the Tone control sliders.
 
Jhausler said:
Thanks Godfrey and Bob. That's what I was thinking.

Am I good believing that in Epson setting midpoint to 1.0 and range from 0-255 that I'm capturing all available data? That is my goal..

Now i just need to learn how to work the tone curve in LR better. Today I mainly just use the Tone control sliders.
Click to expand...

Not knowing the Epson software specifically, it sounds like several other capture apps. I suspect that the center slider 0 position works best for scans where the data is evenly distributed proportions of darks and lights. Tweaking it one way or the other will compress values on one side while expanding values on the other, which might be worth doing if, for instance, you have a predominance of dark or light tones you want to separate.

I expect the 0 position will net all the data, but tweaking it a little one way or the other can improve edit-ability in LR.

G
 
When it comes to colour negatives, is there a way to have the epson software generate a raw uninverted scan I can invert and colour correct at will later on?
 
How about Colton's method? He described it here first for color. I do it same way for b/w.
The key thing is ... leave it on auto for exposure.
I use same as you. v500, Epson Scan and LR.
Why waste your time with histogram if auto will do it right?
It is much more easier and faster in LR then to do some adjustments. No histogram as well.
If you have hard time to believe in auto, check my Flickr. All film is scanned this way, with LR adjustments.
 
marameo said:
When it comes to colour negatives, is there a way to have the epson software generate a raw uninverted scan I can invert and colour correct at will later on?
Click to expand...

Don't know about Epson software, but VueScan (pro version) allows you to do that by allowing you to create VueScan raw files. You can effectively re-scan the raw files as many times as you like with different inversion, exposure and other settings without having to re-run the negatives through the scanner. The raw files can be created as TIFF or DNG format, so if you want you can edit them in other image processing software.

Of course, with almost any scanning software you can tell it the film it's scanning is neg or positive at will. If you tell the scanning software the color negatives are positives, it will create digital files that try to reproduce them accurately.

G
 
Hallo,

you can scan an absolutely flat and "raw" image in Epson Scan, with following settings:

1. In the Configuration set "No Color Correction"
2. Scan as "positive film" with 48-Bit color.

BTW, thats what the Colorperfect-Plugin recommends/needs for the input files.

schöne Grüße,

Johann
 
Jhausler said:
Have a quick question about the histogram dialog on the Epson Scanning software.

I've been using a v500 for close to a year now and I find that while some of my scans look well exposed, many appear very underexposed. I've been following the Kenleegallery guide.

Essentially, in the histogram dialog, i move the white and black points to the ends of where the data is. I set the output to 0 and 255, then i move the mid point to 1.0.

Then i work the scan in lightroom. Does the above method seem right?

Thanks,
Jesse
Click to expand...

Not sure if you're still looking, but you can try this,
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/107-film-processing-scanning-darkroom/273685-scanning-ektar-my-method.html

When I scan B&W, I use basically the same method, with some minor variations.
You can try moving your midpoint anywhere between .90 to 1.30
If you have contrasty negatives, you might need to bump it to 1.30
 
Ko.Fe. said:
How about Colton's method? He described it here first for color. I do it same way for b/w.
The key thing is ... leave it on auto for exposure.
I use same as you. v500, Epson Scan and LR.
Why waste your time with histogram if auto will do it right?
It is much more easier and faster in LR then to do some adjustments. No histogram as well.
If you have hard time to believe in auto, check my Flickr. All film is scanned this way, with LR adjustments.
Click to expand...

I used to think that the auto exposure did a good enough job, but with a bit of work, you can get much better results turning the auto exposure off.
 
How about a log profile for scanning?

I was reading this about the cineon file format: The data is stored in log format, directly corresponding to density of the original negative. Since the scanned material is likely a negative, the data can be said to be gamma with log encoding".

Is there a way to scan like this with an epson scanner?

Thanks

EDIT: A little more about Cineon: https://library.creativecow.net/articles/oconnell_pete/cineon.php
 
Increasing the gamma in the levels dialog would probably be an OK approximation, if I understand the cineon thing right it's a log curve on top of the regular (1.00 in the box) gamma correction. You might also try to put a log curve in the curves dialog with the levels gamma at 1.00...
 
Yes, instead of scanning to a raw file I'd rather have a tiff file with a bake-in log profile. Something like the digital intermediate in the cinematography industry.

I can always go to a lab and ask to scan with the level at 1.00
 
In the case of the epson software in levels that's the normal correction from the linear blahblah that comes off the ccds. It's Gamma 2.2 or whatever. You won't have the log curve. A linear file is also called gamma 1 though, so you'll need to tell them exactly what you want. I think asking for a linear file (in the no gamma correction / straight off the ccds / raw file sense) is the opposite of this cineon thing. If I understand it right.
 
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