Erwin on Leicas future

[Tuolumne]

There must be some sort of industry trade magazine or something that tracks unit sales, so all this can be put into perspective.

Assuming the 14,000 figure for the M8 is accurate, it would be nice to know how many D2x (or any $5k dSLR) were sold in a given time frame, for reference.

But raw numbers only tell part of the story. Porsche comes to mind...they sold about 100,000 cars in 2006 and made over 7 billion euros. GM sold nearly ten million units in 2007 and lost money.

There is. I can't remember the name. Some mention of it was made of it recently when it was reported that they had stopped tracking the number of film cameras sold. That's right - they don't track film cameras anymore. The numbers are too small to matter. hahahahahahaha...

/T

 

[splitimageview]

Tamarkin says they sold 190 last year. The local Austin dealer told me he sells about one or two a month.

 

[Tuolumne]

dSLR market numbers from IDC (2006 unit volume):


Canon: 2.46 million
Nikon: 1.74 million
Sony: 326,000
Samsung: 43,000
Panasonic: 36,000

Total unit volume for dSLRs in 2006: 5.27 million

Total unit volume for compact digital cameras in 2006: 100.4 million units
Canon unit volume of compact digital cameras in 2006: 17.3 million units

Total WW digital camera market in 2006: 105.7 million units

http://www.news.com/SLRs-lead-digital-camera-sales-surge/2100-1041_3-6173084.html

/T

 

[splitimageview]

That's a good start...there must be some sort of number showing the breakdown of models, though. A $600 D40 will sell a lot more units than a $5000 D3.

 

[Tuolumne]

That's a good start...there must be some sort of number showing the breakdown of models, though. A $600 D40 will sell a lot more units than a $5000 D3.

I'm sure there is. But that report will probably cost you $20K. Anybody want to spring for that and forego buying 4 M8's? 🙂

/T

 

[splitimageview]

You are probably right, maybe even more... 🙂

Geez...20 million units for Canon. Amazing.

 

[Tuolumne]

You are probably right, maybe even more... 🙂

Geez...20 million units for Canon. Amazing.

Kind of shows you what the small fish like Leica are up against. Like...the wall. :bang:

/T

 

[Tuolumne]

You are probably right, maybe even more... 🙂

Geez...20 million units for Canon. Amazing.

And to put this into a more intuitive perspective: that's 55,000 cameras per day, every day of the year. And that was in 2006!

Or put it like this: Canon sells as many cameras in 2.5 hours of the day as the number of M8s Leica sells per year (assuming they've sold 14,000 in two years.)

Sitemistic, where are you when we need you?

/T

 

[Gray Fox]

Thom Hogan always seems to have the inside track on Nikon financials. Somone might drop him a note when he returns from the training session next week.

 

[aizan]

what's crystal clear is that no camera company makes bank with their top of the line models. the money comes in from their entry-level gear (yes, the unwashed masses). the flagship is there for prestige and some professionals and rich amateurs. so if leica made a ff camera that "nobody" could buy, it would still pay off—if they made an entry-level or prosumer camera that people could afford. i've got my fingers crossed for a fixed lens DMD, which makes the most sense as an accompaniment to a dslr.

 

[xayraa33]

yes Leica will be no more.
yes Leica will be no more.
yes Leica will be no more.
yes Leica will be no more.
ah.. this is getting tiresome.

 

[splitimageview]

Is there an echo in here? 🙂

 

[BillBingham2]

Can Leica even....

Can Leica even....

Fred, Cameraquest posted yesterday that there have been 14,000 M8's sold.

That just seems like a whole lot of very fancy (read labor intensive) rangefinders to put together. How many M7s and MPs did they sell last year? I have a hard time thinking that they could ramp up production of such a intricate camera to such a large number.

B2 (;->

 

[aizan]

they used to be able to.

so leica isn't making much money right now. everybody knows that. it doesn't mean they can't in the future.

 

[aizan]

that's what i'm saying. no expensive camera sells in great numbers. all leica needs is to make a cheaper camera that lots of people will buy.

 

[mfunnell]

Just from what I've read and heard, my impression of the current Leica owner is that he didn't get into the company because he wanted to make Canon A640 clones.

There's no money in that, anyway, unless you're a giant electronics conglomerate or have long-standing expertise and market share. High volumes, low margins, distribution channel requirements and a killing product development cycle ensure that. Leica's alliance or partnership (or whatever it is) with Panasonic is the best they can hope for in the small-sensor digital compact game.

...Mike

 

[splitimageview]

So what do you do if you are Leica? You can't compete at the low or middle end with the Canon and Nikon Juggernauts, and your own sales tell you the limits of seiling in the high end rangefinder market.

I think you are left with trying to do what Lee was trying to do. Dress the pig up and put lipstick on it (metaphorically speaking, of course). But, it seems, even fewer people wearing Doc Martins are willing to buy $5,000 rangefinders then we gear heads.

It's been stated what they need to do, several times by several different posters. The unknowns are funding and desire. There really isn't much more to say.

Time to shoot some photos...

 

[slm]

"Or put it like this: Canon sells as many cameras in 2.5 hours of the day as the number of M8s Leica sells per year (assuming they've sold 14,000 in two years.)"

I think that puts Leica's situation in the proper perspective.

Nope. It doesn't put their situation into perspective.
I think what it says is you expect Leica to be a "Canon sized" company with their volume of camera sales, sold at your local Walmart, to be worth consideration.

 

[slm]

But Leica doesn't have 20 million entry-level cameras to support their 14,000 M8 sales. The digital rangefinder market isn't even the tiniest pixel on the total camera sales radar screen. As far as the industry is concerned, it doesn't exist.

Fact of the matter is, we don't even know if Leica needs 20 million entry-level camera sales to support their business. We all assume they do. And what does it matter if the digital rangefinder market "isn't even the tiniest pixel on the total camera sales radar screen" ?