Erwin Puts weighs in on the RD-1

Azinko said:
Presumably I'm missing something here!.......

I know nothing about digital and also I'm one of the 'numerically dyslexic',....However, my, admittedly quick, skim of the Putts review shows that this extaordinarily expensive piece of jun....sorry!, camera, compares very poorly to a decent 35mm film model,...also one has to actually wind the thing on between frames!!!!!! All this and more for a staggering 4000 US$ (UK equivalent price)......you can buy a good camera for this much! Especially since a prestigous UK authority asseses the production cost of R-D1 at about £250 (490 US$)
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And that, in a nutshell, is why such reviews can be misleading. Use the camera for a couple months and then report back to us. Till then, you're talking mostly out of your...hat.

Prestigious UK what...? Don't believe everything you read. Or, if you really believe that, start a camera company making cameras just like the R-D1 and sell them for $500 each. No doubt, you'll make a fortune. Forgive my lack of gentility but some of this B.S. really starts to strain my patience.


Cheers,

Sean
 
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Am I going crazy, or has there been a substantial change to the conclusion of the Erwin Puts review. It seems to be a much more sympathetic conclusion than when I first read it.
 
You know, I think you may be right. I think he rewrote it and added a paragraph (or my memory is failing, which is possible). Good for him if he rethought the review and revised accordingly.

Cheers,

Sean
 
Sean,.....

"............. Use the camera for a couple months and then report back to us. Till then, you're talking mostly out of your...hat....."

......but surely that is the whole point of this or any other review especially with a name like 'Erwin Puttts' clipped to it,...I know nothing about the camera or about digital itself,...i HAVE to take the word of someone with a notable reputation .

If YOU could put yourself in my perspective would YOU buy a 4000US$ camera on the basis of the muddy looking file in the review when next to it is a much healthier looking film specimen made with the same lens???

Frankly, telling people they are talking out of their 'hats' until they have used something for a couple of months is not only impolite but hardly realistic,...let alone intelligent. Also, its not in the usual spirit of this forum even if you are kind of besotted with your new toy!!
 
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There have been many reviews of the R-D1 before Erwin's which he could have turned to for potential reference. From reading, and then recently rereading his review, I agree that he changed his conclusion. The feedback from here, perhaps from prior reviews, and perhaps elsewhere that we do not know about may have caused this.

I did not buy my R-D1 until I had intensively used Tom Abrahamsson's loaner for 2 weeks. It ought to take time to form an opinion.

Ed
 
Azinko said:
Sean,.....

.........

If YOU could put yourself in my perspective would YOU buy a 4000US$ camera on the basis of the muddy looking file in the review when next to it is a much healthier looking film specimen made with the same lens???
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Azinko, read Seans review and have a look at his pictures.

Have a look at others pictures here, as well.

And then look up Calumets prices for the Epson R-D1, it is cheaper than a Leica MP or M7.

I'm in for one!
 
i think sean's already said that it sharpens up well. you still have to "develop" your digital photos, you know.

and erwin really could have done a better job on this review. he's self-publishing, for crying out loud!
 
"It aint' all about megapickles
It ain't all about resolution charts
It aint' all about MTF charts"
... it's about the PICS!
 
Azinko said:
Frankly, telling people they are talking out of their 'hats' until they have used something for a couple of months is not only impolite but hardly realistic,...let alone intelligent. Also, its not in the usual spirit of this forum even if you are kind of besotted with your new toy!!
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Bob, you're digging yourself deeper into a hole. One, the RD-1 is not a toy. Two, Sean is talking from experience of using the camera for a couple of months. Three, no matter what critics may think of Erwin Puts, the fact that he wrote a review is indicative that the Leica world has taken notice.

We all know that the RD-1 will not be an heirloom passed on to the grandchildren.

Whether or not you agree with the pricing of the camera is immaterial. Even if the ingredients cost a mere $500 a copy to produce, there are development and marketing costs. Although, I doubt that Epson/Cosina will produce their entire stated 10,000 camera production run, its street price may come down within a year or two.

Is there currently a premium added to this only digital rangefinder entry? Absolutely.
 
Sorry to be rude... I'm new here. I used to have an M-3 w/ 3 lenses, but sold off and now have OM and Toyo field equipment. Have started to buy fixed lens rangefinders (mainly Olympus: SP, RC, XA, plus a Hi-Matic and a Konica C-35), and am contemplating diving back in to Leica mount again.

Trius
 
Azinko wrote:

"......but surely that is the whole point of this or any other review especially with a name like 'Erwin Puttts' clipped to it,...I know nothing about the camera or about digital itself,...i HAVE to take the word of someone with a notable reputation ."

No you don't. Take any review, including mine, with a grain of salt if need be.

"If YOU could put yourself in my perspective would YOU buy a 4000US$ camera on the basis of the muddy looking file in the review when next to it is a much healthier looking film specimen made with the same lens???"

I might well buy this particular $3000 camera based on what I read in my own reviews. But I think that I might also buy it from a place that had a return policy in case it wasn't what I hoped for. I bought the camera in mid-November and have used it for about four months. Erwin's review was interesting but limited.

"Frankly, telling people they are talking out of their 'hats' until they have used something for a couple of months is not only impolite but hardly realistic,...let alone intelligent. Also, its not in the usual spirit of this forum even if you are kind of besotted with your new toy!!"

It's true that its out of the usual spirit here but if you've never used the camera and come onto a forum devoted to it and start calling it junk, you're setting yourself up. And the fact remains that you are indeed talking out of your hat because you don't have direct experience with the camera. Anyone in that situation is talking out of his or her hat. As for the toy comment....I'm not a hobbyist...I'm a professional photographer and have already earned money with this camera. I don't have the luxury of buying toys; if a camera or lens isn't functional for my work I don't buy it or don't keep it.

Let's not turn this into an argument. If you get a chance to use the camera for a couple of weeks and have criticisms, I'm all ears. But to start insulting the camera based on Erwin's review is bound to trigger responses from people who know it firsthand and have a limited B.S. tolerance.

Cheers,

Sean
 
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First let me welcome Trius. How is the weather in Rochester? Next, let me stand corrected on saying Sean has had the RD-1 for two months, its four. I may be a film curmugean, but I'm willing to learn a new medium, if suites my shooting style. Hence, my interest in what users of the RD-1 have to say.
 
Yes, welcome Trius. You've discovered RFF, one of the gems of the Internet.

Cheers,

Sean
 
Andrew & Sean:

Thanks for the welcome. RFF is indeed one of the gems of the net. Your review of the R-D1, Sean, eventually lead me here. In know GeneW here, as he is also on the OM list and we have corresponded privately, and I am anticipating Gene and I will meet in Toronto for some casual shooting and a coffee shop chat this Spring.

As I said, I owned an M3 (early to late 80s) with 21 Super Angulon (f3.4? I think), 50mm DR and 90mm Summicron. After I acquired a 21/f2 Zuiko for the OMs and saw its quality, I decided that since I had left the ranks of professional photography, I couldn't really justify keeping the Leica gear. Besides, I needed the monehy. I also had Rollei SL66 gear that I sold, leaving me with an XA, some OM gear and Toyo/Fujinon kit.

Due to personal cricumstances and the busy-ness of life, I dropped out of photography as a hobby as well. But a year or so ago I got interested again. I had given a fair amount of tutelage to my best friend in Brampton, Ontario with regard to composition, technique, etc., and as he progressed the fires were rekindled a bit. So, I have been spending way too much time on that horrible, awful auction place, and have picked up additional OM gear, and got fascinated with rangefinders again.

What I have found is that in addition to the difference in handling and speed of shooting an RF, I also now SEE better through that viewfinder. Some of it probably has to do with the changes in my eyes. Even with a really good varifocal contact lens prescription, I probably need a diopter for my OMs. But with the rangefinders I feel more relaxed; it's more like the extension of my eye-brain that I remember and want to have there.

Trius

Weather in Rochester? Nothing that a Canadian can't handle, but we still have lots of snow on the ground and cold temps. My daughter, who lives with her mum in Stratford, has next week of for March break. I'll go pick her up Saturday, which pretty much guarantees a snow storm. ;) 4WD and snowtires should see me through.
 
I don't have a lot of experience reading Mr. Puts' reviews, nor do I have hands-on experience with the RD-1, but his review seemed positive to me. I don't think he took the best care with the photos he shot with the camera but he did praise several aspects of the camera and he definitely seemed to make a strong effort to be reasonably fair and balanced.

Moving slightly off-topic, it's always nice to have more opinions to read. I think Sean is right about the proper frame of mind to read these reviews from (BTW, I liked the thoroughness of your review, Sean). If I had believed everything I read about the noise levels from the Minolta Dimage 7i when I was shopping for a digital camera a couple of years ago without going to the photo store and seeing it for myself, I would have written it off. Instead, I decided to go see for myself... guess which camera I wound up buying?

Sometimes, it's best to just see for yourself.
 
"Sometimes, it's best to just see for yourself."

Absolutely true. The only thing I would add to that is that it sometimes takes a little while of using a camera and looking at the results to decide if it's the right "match" for a given photographer.

Cheers,

Sean
 
Sean Reid said:
Prestigious UK what...? Don't believe everything you read. Or, if you really believe that, start a camera company making cameras just like the R-D1 and sell them for $500 each. No doubt, you'll make a fortune. Forgive my lack of gentility but some of this B.S. really starts to strain my patience.
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It may not be BS; for one thing, production cost rarely includes R&D or marketing costs, and if
they're using any sort of automation, the labor costs when amortized over an entire production
run probably won't be very large, and neither will the material costs.

However, for a variety of reasons including the fact that the production costs generally don't
include R&D and marketing costs, the price doesn't typically have a very direct correlation to
cost. Usually, the guys that decide on the price go out and look at the rest of the market, figure
out what price they think the market will bear, and charge that much. If they're right, the product
will sell, they'll make their target profits, and they make money.
 
Its good to see that erwin adjusted his review/conclusions about the rd-1. Due in no small part to the diligence of a member(s?) of this forum. If nobody made an effort to illustrate to Mr Putts the shortcomings of his review a lot of people would end up with a warped and innacurrate view of the rd-1. Although its obvious that no amount of effort will help everyone, especially those among us who have a prediliction for carping...
 
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