Eugene Smith Spanish wake technique

[MCTuomey]

What's the difference between a flash and a strobe?

Flash = hot shoe based (can be off-camera of course), limited power, small/light
Strobe = not hot shoe based, full range of power, large(r)/heavier

I think this is how the terms are generally used, but as others have said, usage varies.

 

[megido]

He stated that he used a single flash bulb in place of a candle, and the single, hard shadow confirms that. And there were no soft boxes on flash bulbs and other light sources of the time, prior to electronic flash all photo lamps and flashes were hot enough that soft boxes would have caught fire.

Going by the DOF and texture he probably used a 4x5" for the Spanish wake - he started out with Graflex Reflex cameras, but by that time it was probably a Speed Graphic.

I seem to recall that he was using only a Leica and 35mm in Spain.. The other photos in the series certainly look like 35mm. I'll try to re find the quote.
I was lucky enough to see most of the Spanish prints in a Madrid museum last year.. Absolutely stunning!

 

[PKR]

He stated that he used a single flash bulb in place of a candle, and the single, hard shadow confirms that. And there were no soft boxes on flash bulbs and other light sources of the time, prior to electronic flash all photo lamps and flashes were hot enough that soft boxes would have caught fire.

Going by the DOF and texture he probably used a 4x5" for the Spanish wake - he started out with Graflex Reflex cameras, but by that time it was probably a Speed Graphic.

Many people associate Smith with 35mm cameras. Smith began making photos before 35mm cameras were popular. The bare bulb flash was popular for lighting up small rooms. Especially if the room wasn't large, didn't have high ceilings and had several light colored sides. The technique got very popular with photojournalists into the 60s using Graphlex portable electronic flash.

I think Spanish Wake was made in 1951? So, Servo's argument is a good one, I think, given the equipment popular then and the image content.

It's my understanding that Irving Penn invented the soft box technique using Ascor Sunlight Series Electronic Flash heads in a scrimmed grid array. Later the more powerful flash tubes were built into a box with cooling fans. I've worked with these. Having an arm about 2ft away from a 10K w/s (joule) flash head when triggered... burned all the hair off your arm.

 

[sevo]

Flash = hot shoe based (can be off-camera of course), limited power, small/light
Strobe = not hot shoe based, full range of power, large(r)/heavier

I think this is how the terms are generally used, but as others have said, usage varies.

Must be a American distinction. In BE, it used to be flash throughout, strobe being a stroboscope, i.e. a rapidly repeating stage decoration (or scientific/technical) flash, and the AE "flashlight" being a "torch".

 

[twopointeight]

Apparently he used the same technique in the famous Minamata photo of the "Tomoko in the Bath" with her mother. I was in his studio in 1969 with a class from the New School For Social Research and I remember him talking about his bleaching techniques, directly on the negatives!

 

[megido]

Not doubting Sevo at all and a 4x5 could well have been used but I do recall an interview with Smith stating he used a Leica with a 35mm almost exlusively in Spain, if my memory seves me well!

 

[PKR]

Must be a American distinction. In BE, it used to be flash throughout, strobe being a stroboscope, i.e. a rapidly repeating stage decoration (or scientific/technical) flash, and the AE "flashlight" being a "torch".

This is what I was taught in both Physics and in photo classes in a US college. My professional photographer friends always made the distinction also. Stroboscopes were sometimes used in AD shots where a repeating image was wanted.

I think Strobe as a catchall term got popular through photo magazines in the US, as Chris mentioned.

 

[PKR]

Apparently he used the same technique in the famous Minamata photo of the "Tomoko in the Bath" with her mother. I was in his studio in 1969 with a class from the New School For Social Research and I remember him talking about his bleaching techniques, directly on the negatives!

Was the "bleaching" local or done to the entire negative? I could see it being done to a 4x5 nag, but it would get tricky with 35mm.

 

[MCTuomey]

I will certainly be doing tests. A softbox may be out of the question as there may be no local electricity!
Will report back.

you don't need it. easy to modify a small battery operated flash with a softbox, umbrella, beauty dish, etc., if you decide you need softer versus harder shadows. good to be able to do both on location. i've made little modifiers that press fit on the end of a speedlight on the spot from empty beer cans, paper towel, and gaff tape. smaller/farther = harder. larger/closer = softer.

 

[oftheherd]

I will certainly be doing tests. A softbox may be out of the question as there may be no local electricity!
Will report back.

That you must do. I used to be pretty good with flash, but haven't used it much in the last 10 years or so. I got that way only by experimenting. I used electronic flash of low and high power, and flash bulbs. They each give different effects. As good as I was, I wouldn't be comfortable using it now without some familiarizing practice again.

You need to know how each type of light works in different situations and what light they produce. One photo with each isn't enough. Are you going to use a digital or film camera? Use what you will there.

Also, be yourself as much as possible, and remember you are being paid to shoot what your customer wants, or as near as possible. Eugene Smith was indeed an accomplished photographer and printer. You are not him, which doesn't mean you aren't any good, just that you likely have a different style. That is what you are likely to produce your best results with.

 

[MCTuomey]

Must be a American distinction. In BE, it used to be flash throughout, strobe being a stroboscope, i.e. a rapidly repeating stage decoration (or scientific/technical) flash, and the AE "flashlight" being a "torch".

Likely so, given how famously variable (i.e. sloppy) American English is in use.

 

[megido]

That you must do. I used to be pretty good with flash, but haven't used it much in the last 10 years or so. I got that way only by experimenting. I used electronic flash of low and high power, and flash bulbs. They each give different effects. As good as I was, I wouldn't be comfortable using it now without some familiarizing practice again.

You need to know how each type of light works in different situations and what light they produce. One photo with each isn't enough. Are you going to use a digital or film camera? Use what you will there.

Also, be yourself as much as possible, and remember you are being paid to shoot what your customer wants, or as near as possible. Eugene Smith was indeed an accomplished photographer and printer. You are not him, which doesn't mean you aren't any good, just that you likely have a different style. That is what you are likely to produce your best results with.

I certainly have no desire to copy or attempt to copy that work. It was just a reference as the lighting conditions will be similar and coincidentally I will be in Spain. Thankfully, i'm being commissioned to be myself, (except for choice of location) as I already have trust from the subject. It's just the technical part I need to be comfortable with hence the planned tests. I'll be using a 35mm camera with a 24 2.8 lens and 400 film.

 

[megido]

you don't need it. easy to modify a small battery operated flash with a softbox, umbrella, beauty dish, etc., if you decide you need softer versus harder shadows. good to be able to do both on location. i've made little modifiers that press fit on the end of a speedlight on the spot from empty beer cans, paper towel, and gaff tape. smaller/farther = harder. larger/closer = softer.

This is very helpful advice. Thank you!

 

[PKR]

I certainly have no desire to copy or attempt to copy that work. It was just a reference as the lighting conditions will be similar and coincidentally I will be in Spain. Thankfully, i'm being commissioned to be myself, (except for choice of location) as I already have trust from the subject. It's just the technical part I need to be comfortable with hence the planned tests. I'll be using a 35mm camera with a 24 2.8 lens and 400 film.

If you have a digital camera that will accept that lens or something similar, you might consider doing some of your testing with it. In the past when testing for a film shot I used a Polaroid back. I now use a digital camera in place of the Polaroid back.

 

[back alley]

i'm surprised those light wands are not more popular..

 

[PKR]

i'm surprised those light wands are not more popular..

Which ones Joe?

 

[back alley]

Which ones Joe?

i think the original one is called the ice light...
i bought a copy for much less money that the original but have not used it much yet.

https://www.fjwestcott.com/shop/lighting/led/ice-light-2

 

[PKR]

i think the original one is called the ice light...
i bought a copy for much less money that the original but have not used it much yet.

https://www.fjwestcott.com/shop/lighting/led/ice-light-2

Looks interesting. All the camera stores in my hood have closed.. So, i'll try to see one when I travel out of town. I use studio flash that's small and portable, old Dynalites and a set of speed lights for most all I do. Mostly Nikon speed light stuff. With digital, modifier equipped speed lights can do quite a lot. I have a portrait rig that I use both indoors and outdoors. Big umbrella, 4x6' scrims for windows, etc. All, powered with a few speed lights & back-up battery power, plus radio sync or CLS. I can fire speed lights placed outside through scrimmed windows without running any wires. Handy for boosting window light. It also makes traveling easier than in the past.

Until a year ago, I could rent any additional light a job called for, but the local rental house went under. So, I have to keep anything I might need in house now. I'm always looking for light weight stuff that's made well.


Wescott makes good stuff. I have one of their soft boxes that must be 10 years old and it looks and works like new.

Thanks Joe, pkr

 

[x-ray]

I think Norman portable flash was made in the late 50s early 60s. Bare bulb was in use with those units a lot. I had a newer unit that I used into the 90s. Smith may have used flash bulbs for Spanish Wake as it was done in the early 50s I think.50B flash bulbs were available into the 80s as they put out a lot of light and were great for architectural interiors. I'll bet he used a small flash bulb given the time the photo was taken and the remote location of the photo.

With higher power speed lights and faster film, bounce flash has become more popular. You don't see bare bulb flash photos much these days.

I was around in 1951 when this was shot but not up on my flash technique at age 3. It was 2 more years before I picked up a camera 🙂.

In 51 it almost had to be bulbs. Strobes didn't go into wide use until much later plus the early ones were large, heave and inefficient. My dad bought a Highland handle mount around 1960 and while convenient it was heavy, inefficient and very low guide number.

Bulbs that were common in that era were the # 3, 11 and 40. There were a few larger than the 3 but I can't remember the number. Actually I think the 40 and 11 are the same except they were made by different manufacturers. Somewhere in a box I've not unpacked from my move last year I have a small collection of flash bulbs and have several very large ones. Even have an infrared bulb and a #11 signed by O Winston Link.

Bulbs were common even into the 70's. I used thousands when I worked for the department of energy in 1974-75. Yes we were still using speed graphics and bulbs. I've lit some massive areas with #3's. It's amazing the amount of ligh when you fire 60 at once.

 

[PKR]

I was around in 1951 when this was shot but not up on my flash technique at age 3. It was 2 more years before I picked up a camera 🙂.

In 51 it almost had to be bulbs. Strobes didn't go into wide use until much later plus the early ones were large, heave and inefficient. My dad bought a Highland handle mount around 1960 and while convenient it was heavy, inefficient and very low guide number.

Bulbs that were common in that era were the # 3, 11 and 40. There were a few larger than the 3 but I can't remember the number. Actually I think the 40 and 11 are the same except they were made by different manufacturers. Somewhere in a box I've not unpacked from my move last year I have a small collection of flash bulbs and have several very large ones. Even have an infrared bulb and a #11 signed by O Winston Link.

Bulbs were common even into the 70's. I used thousands when I worked for the department of energy in 1974-75. Yes we were still using speed graphics and bulbs. I've lit some massive areas with #3's. It's amazing the amount of ligh when you fire 60 at once.

Wow, isn't Link the guy who did all those RxR photos with big arrays of big bulbs (50B)?
Really cool stuff. I remember seeing some of those photos. I built a rig with a capacitor discharge dumping onto up to 6 50Bs. I used an SCR to trigger from the shutter sync. I know you understand this stuff. The unit was for bringing interiors up to daylight for architectural photos with a 4x5. Lot of light in a small package. I had a big leather glove for handling the 50Bs..

Firing 60 of those things would be worth watching. I think I might pay to see that.
Some time remind me to tell you Albert Watson and Annie Leibovitz stories. My old assistant worked for one and worked with the past studio manager for the other. This is PM stuff.