Tim Gray
Well-known
I agree with Roger's analysis. Other pieces of German made equipment (ex. Schoeps mics) have seen a similar rise in price over the last 10 years, mostly due to exchange rates. I'm sure there's some inflation thrown in too, as well as possibly some other domestic factors (in Germany). But the long and short of it; some products have gotten a lot more expensive, in contrast to the hugely increased buying power associated with DSLRs.
I get the feeling that Leica will never reduce prices. What they might do, and what they did the last time the Euro took a dip, is to instate rebates. The end buyer gets the benefit of cheaper purchases, and when the exchange rate returns to its previous value, Leica doesn't get slammed for raising prices *again*. They just kill the rebate.
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eleskin
Well-known
Am I a Loyal customer?
Am I a Loyal customer?
Well, I bought the M8 at $4,799 USD in 2007, and I still think that was very expensive!
Loyal? Well, I love Rangefinders for the many reasons people in this forum do. I was using medium format (Fuji GSW 690) for some years because 35mm did not give me the smoother tone transitions or resolution. I really missed using my M6 due to size and interchangable lenses. the M8 brought me back in that it gave me medium format quality in a 35mm sized camera. If Zeiss would have made it first, I would have bought it. Fact is Leica is for now the only game in town. If the Zeiss Ikon went digital, I would buy it over the M9. Why? Better design (eye relief with big viewfinder and layout) and cheaper price. I really hope the digital rangefinder field opens up a little. Voigtlander did that in the late 1990's with film rangefinders. The technology has now matured to the point where others can make cheaper but competent alternatives to the M9. I have spent thousands on used Leica glass for 20 years, and let me tell you, some of the lenses coming out by Voigtlander/Zeiss are astounding in quality for the price (the 15mm Super Wide Heliar and 35mm f1.2 Nokton are shocking in performance for the price. Best buy I ever made for any M mount lens!). So much so that I would probably buy them first when considering new out of the box. So for me, the field is wide open and anything goes. All I want are tools to get the job done , a good selection of cameras and lenses, and a range of prices that people can afford (people who are not rich vs. deep pockets). I love Leica, but I also believe in competition being a healthy thing (especially for Leica and others).
Am I a Loyal customer?
Well, I bought the M8 at $4,799 USD in 2007, and I still think that was very expensive!
Loyal? Well, I love Rangefinders for the many reasons people in this forum do. I was using medium format (Fuji GSW 690) for some years because 35mm did not give me the smoother tone transitions or resolution. I really missed using my M6 due to size and interchangable lenses. the M8 brought me back in that it gave me medium format quality in a 35mm sized camera. If Zeiss would have made it first, I would have bought it. Fact is Leica is for now the only game in town. If the Zeiss Ikon went digital, I would buy it over the M9. Why? Better design (eye relief with big viewfinder and layout) and cheaper price. I really hope the digital rangefinder field opens up a little. Voigtlander did that in the late 1990's with film rangefinders. The technology has now matured to the point where others can make cheaper but competent alternatives to the M9. I have spent thousands on used Leica glass for 20 years, and let me tell you, some of the lenses coming out by Voigtlander/Zeiss are astounding in quality for the price (the 15mm Super Wide Heliar and 35mm f1.2 Nokton are shocking in performance for the price. Best buy I ever made for any M mount lens!). So much so that I would probably buy them first when considering new out of the box. So for me, the field is wide open and anything goes. All I want are tools to get the job done , a good selection of cameras and lenses, and a range of prices that people can afford (people who are not rich vs. deep pockets). I love Leica, but I also believe in competition being a healthy thing (especially for Leica and others).
Mackinaw
Think Different
I still remember the ads in Shutterbug magazine that Leica USA placed back in the early-mid 1990s', "Buy a M6 and get $500.00 back!"
So yes, a rebate (in the U.S.) is possible.
Jim B.
So yes, a rebate (in the U.S.) is possible.
Jim B.
Ben Z
Veteran
I don't recall saying anything about wicked or greedy, I just made an observation regarding what I perceive to be Leica's marketing strategy. I would do likewise, if I could. Would be stupid not to. Why jump from the sublime to the ridiculous? Your response sounds a bit on the emotional side for someone who says he prefers rationality.
True, but that seems to support what I'm saying, that Leica's prices hikes are not based on world economic factors but rather on the marketability of their product. And FYI, neither BMW, Jaguar or Volvo (the 3 major European automakers with substantial market share in the US) have raised prices significantly over the past 5-6 years.
Ben Z
Veteran
Again, nobody other than yourself has characterized Leica as wicked and greedy. I may not argue with your maths, however even if the figures can be made to justify the price hikes, the reality is that Leica is one of the very few luxury-goods suppliers who can get away with it in the US.
eleskin
Well-known
Rebate in today's dollars
Rebate in today's dollars
Lets see now. I bought an M6 in 1991 for $1,700 USD. So there was a $500 rebate, so the price was $1,200. The M9 is $6,999.00 So should not the rebate be $1,500 or more? This being 2010 this should be correct, that is unless we live in a world of rising taxes, bills, etc,,, but not a rise in what people get paid!!!!
Rebate in today's dollars
Lets see now. I bought an M6 in 1991 for $1,700 USD. So there was a $500 rebate, so the price was $1,200. The M9 is $6,999.00 So should not the rebate be $1,500 or more? This being 2010 this should be correct, that is unless we live in a world of rising taxes, bills, etc,,, but not a rise in what people get paid!!!!
Mike Richards
Well-known
Leica Dealer in Greece
Leica Dealer in Greece
From the Leica website:
Leica Premier Dealer - Skiadopoulos
Address: 12 George Street Sq. Kanigos
10677 Athens
Phone: 0210-3841236
Fax: 0210-3815908
E-mail: support@skiadopoulos.gr
I just bought my X1 from them. They are very nice people to deal with and have some consignments and/or leads to used Leicas.
Leica Dealer in Greece
From the Leica website:
Leica Premier Dealer - Skiadopoulos
Address: 12 George Street Sq. Kanigos
10677 Athens
Phone: 0210-3841236
Fax: 0210-3815908
E-mail: support@skiadopoulos.gr
I just bought my X1 from them. They are very nice people to deal with and have some consignments and/or leads to used Leicas.
Mike Richards
Well-known
Euro - Dollar Parity
Euro - Dollar Parity
We need to remember that the M8 and M9 have Kodak sensors, which I understand account for a significant portion of the price. They are produced in the US and purchased in US dollars. It's unlikely that the exchange rate will have any meaningful effect on prices on either side of the pond.
Euro - Dollar Parity
We need to remember that the M8 and M9 have Kodak sensors, which I understand account for a significant portion of the price. They are produced in the US and purchased in US dollars. It's unlikely that the exchange rate will have any meaningful effect on prices on either side of the pond.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Ben,
Yes. Possibly because they really are luxury goods manufacturers who also sell first-class goods.
Cheers,
R.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
Exactly. I love it when people around here compare the cost of a limited-production hand made item to a high volume item made mostly on an automated assembly line, and cite "greed" to explain the price differential.
They should take an Econ 101 class, or buy "Economics for Dummies"...
Beemermark
Veteran
The Euro has dropped 30% against the dollar since December 2009. When does the Leica prices start dropping in the US?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
When everyone is sure that this isn't a temporary blip. After all, the shift from $0.89/€ to $1.45/€ was a much bigger and more sustained shift.
Also, as remarked earlier, price reductions are very unlikely indeed: look for rebates instead.
Of course, you can always order direct from the Euro zone.
Cheers,
R.
Beemermark
Veteran
The company financials can be found here.
http://investing.businessweek.com/b...ocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=LCA1:GR
In my limited economical knowledge and experience when your costs exceed your earnings things aren't good. Looks like Leica Camera AG needs to raise prices to stay in business.
http://investing.businessweek.com/b...ocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=LCA1:GR
In my limited economical knowledge and experience when your costs exceed your earnings things aren't good. Looks like Leica Camera AG needs to raise prices to stay in business.
yanidel
Well-known
Most companies edge their sales in foreign currencies for the course of the year, so even if the dollar is up, they still probably are getting a conversion that was fixed at the beginning of the year.
Bruin
Noktonian
Leicanomics 101:
If the Euro rises against the dollar, Leica prices will go up.
If the Euro drops against the dollar, Leica will give you rebates. Then the prices will go up.
Any questions?
If the Euro rises against the dollar, Leica prices will go up.
If the Euro drops against the dollar, Leica will give you rebates. Then the prices will go up.
Any questions?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Leicanomics 101:
If the Euro rises against the dollar, Leica prices will go up.
If the Euro drops against the dollar, Leica will give you rebates. Then the prices will go up.
Any questions?
An excellent summary.
Cheers,
R.
Ben Z
Veteran
Other than Roger, who was infering it (erroneously I should add), where on this thread has anyone cited greed as Leica's motive?
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this discussion was about price raises based on currently valuation. What does that have to do with the mode of manufacture?
r2d2
-
The fanboys get heated when Leica is shown in anything but the very best light.
Leica, IMO, is no longer a business. It is a plaything for a rich boy, like some buy football teams.
user237428934
User deletion pending
you wrote:
someone could interpret this sentence in a way that Leica has no reasonable, but greedy prices.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
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