Eventually getting an M-body

[laptoprob]

Everyone here disregards the M4-2. Just make sure you get one of the 'good' serial numbers and you're better off than a M4-P because of finder flare.

Branki, take a look at www.Marktplaats.nl. Get familiarised in understanding dutch, should be possible for a swede. Or ask me for assistance. I bought an M4 before for Jerevan (Jimi), also in Sweden.

M's don't have to be that expensive.

 

[branki]

Hej Varjag,
I do certainly know not better than you, specially on what you say, 😀 .
Now I do see your point.

JNewell,

I'm probably missing the entire point.🙂 I'm more dubitous now than a couple days ago.

I must admit I was so surprised many comments about the CL came from people who had it and yet would not recommend it.

Does that come from people who have a CL as a 2nd M-body?

As I see it, the CL stands above the CV gear, and obviously under the M2345... gear.
And that goes for usability, feel, ruggedness and price (compared to the M's and later CV's)...

I'm gonna keep my eyes open for a good deal. Either on M2's, M4-P's, M4-2's or even CL's (😉 ).

_________________________________

I'm sorry if my post seemed confrontational, not my intent. Do you really need the meter of the CL? If so then are you going to getting an M2 and spend the entire time wishing you had a light meter? I had that problem when I got my M4-P, I would enjoy it a lot more now then I did when I got it because I really wanted/needed the built in meter. I eventually traded it for an M6.
It's too easy to recommen an M6 but maybe it's something to consider, a few extra months of eating raman, raman isn't bad and you can have fun with it.

Great! , im not into confrontation either.
back on topic,
I think I would end up looking for a built-in lightmeter, but I'll never now until i try. I've also been thinking about a Gossen digisix (as some mentioned before. Semrich, again, showed his to me and it made all the sense) or even the VCII on top of the camera.



laptoprob, I'll look around. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[oscroft]

I must admit I was so surprised many comments about the CL came from people who had it and yet would not recommend it.

Does that come from people who have a CL as a 2nd M-body?

My CL is actually my third M-mount body. My M6 is my main RF camera, with my Bessa-R4A being my second most used, with wideangle lenses. I bought a CL because I saw one that had a few dings going cheap on eBay (about $200) and I just fancied trying it. I thought at that price I could use it for a while and resell it if I didn't like it without losing anything, but I like it 🙂 (and I was lucky that the meter works and is accurate).

I use the CL either when I just want a small and light camera to carry in my pocket but still want to use one of my M-mount lenses, or as a second body to my M6 when I'm not doing anything wider than 28mm. The CL is great for what it is, but it doesn't have the build quality of an M, it has a very short rangefinder baselength, its viewfinder isn't anywhere near as nice, it doesn't have the same selection of VF frames (and the frames aren't as nice) - it's just not an M, and it won't give you that smug "I've got a Leica" feeling 😀

Now, after you've got your first M or two and you want to get something small and light, I'd strongly recommend a CL 😀

 

[David Murphy]

I'm in a similar situation right now and I plan to get an M3. I've seen and handled several M series bodies, but the M3 lives up to its rep as the supreme RF body IMO -- simply incredible. The MP is a close contender if one has extremely deep pockets!

 

[Tom A]

Branki, I see that you are located in Sweden and that is good place for used M-stuff. There was long tradition of M usage (as a perectage, probably more than in Germany). Importers like Brandt Optik supplied cameras to the Swedeish press and also to non pro's.
Keep an eye at classified ads and check with the local stores. It is not a bad idea to go over to Copenhagen and check out Fotographica. Not all their stuff is expensive.
As for choices: I am a perpetual M2 user, but then the 35mm is my standard lens too. A single stroke M3 if you are going to be using 50/90 combinations. The M4-2/M4-P was not a "hot" seller in Europe, thus the pices tend to be a bit more.
The CL is a nice enough camera, but I find that every one I have had, I have broken! Either the advance mechanism or stupi things like the cover glass popping out! It is also getting tricky to get service for it and some parts ,meter cell, coverglass are really scarce.
As for meter - stick to one film and initially use the Bessa as a meter until you find yourself confident enough to guess! Unless you are shooting slow transparency film, you will do OK. Film has an amazing latitude and the screw-ups (wildly over and under) can be classified as "art".

 

[JNewell]

Everyone here disregards the M4-2. Just make sure you get one of the 'good' serial numbers and you're better off than a M4-P because of finder flare.

[the following is said in a tone of friendliness and cooperation, not internet bickering]

The problem is that I've never found anyone who can tell you exactly which are good and which are bad. The early ones are thought to be bad due to the learning curve. The middle ones are good. The later ones suffered changes such as what Rob refers to. The key would be where...what number?

 

[40oz]

a nice start would be a CL, IMHO. It's got a meter, any lenses you get for it would of course be usable on any other M body, and you can find out if you "need" a meter or are simply sketchy about not having one. The CL meter is only "ON" when you make it so, otherwise it is as manual as any other leica.

A CL with a bad meter is a a cheap ass CL. I'd rather own a CL with no meter than most other cameras. A CL is an M-mount Canonet. Easily fits in a jacket pocket, carries almost any LTM or M lens, a fantastic camera for 50mm or wider, and really serviceable for anything longer with some care. But a long lens on a CL is a funny thing itself 🙂

In my case, the CL cemented my requirement for an M body. Because of it I own LTM lenses without a body to mount them on. I sold my CL back to the original seller for a good price since I only had a 50 and a 40 to mount on it and it was seeming a bit redundant on paper. I will probably always regret that move.

If you are faced with financial reality and it's a CL or no M body at all, get the CL. The spot meter only takes a few rolls to get it nailed, and you will find yourself not using the meter many times. This just makes the step to an M2, 3, or 4 that much easier. And as the price of CL's seems fairly stable, you can trade it off for another M without feeling like you are losing your shirt in the process.

But get a full-size M if it's all the same money-wise. The CL is well-made, but it isn't an M3 by any means.

 

[branki]

Thanks to all for the comments!

Tom,
I am keeping my eyes open to the used market up here. I've seen some M2's and many M6's being announced on internet.
There's certainly a good Leica market in Scandinavia.
I've also been to Photographica in Copenhague (I live 20 min away, though in Sweden), an exquisit photo shop with all the gear one can imagine, and the sellers are great folks. I'll have to check again soon.


My limited funds force me to think/plan things over and over. I am not in a rush, yet.


regards to all,
branki