Leica LTM Ever Heard of This 'Hard to Find' Summar?

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
That particular seller usually has very nice gear for sale. Other than the little mark between 2.2 and 3.2 though it looks exactly like my Summar, so I am not sure what he is referring to when he says it has a more elaborate aperture control. Maybe he means it has more aperture blades but he didn't post any photos of them so I don't know. It's a bit of a moot point anyway as anything below 5.6 on a Summar is pretty much for emergency purposes.
 
There were several different Summars but this is one of two common types.
 
This Summar version had 3 little knobs around the rim to secure filters to use for an early Agfa based color process. There was a marking at f/2.9 related to this color process.....Not rare and not valued any higher than a regular Summar.

Dan
 
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Thanks for the clarifications, Dan.
It is more important to know how clean the optics are.
 
Try finding an under 195000 serial number lens, they are in nickel and are much harder to find.

I recently had the pleasure of holding one that was in mint condition, from a fellow Dutchman who was given a Leica IIIb with some lenses that was rescued from the garbage bin. I can tell you, it was tack sharp wide open on the M8, unbelievable. Beautiful portrait lens.
Owner did not want to sell.

GoKevin lists an à la carte original Leica-issued BLACK Summar on that auction site. Now there's something to call special!
 
according to a book i have leica & leicaflex lenses by g . rogliatti " ...these lenses have also a mark at f 2.9 opening of the diaphragm , which is related to the possible use of the already mentioned tri color filter for color pictures with the agfa film . "

about the special film "... it was the most astute way of obtaining color slides from black and white film , and the system , in brief work like this : pictures were taken on a special black and white agfa film , whose celluloid base was engraved with thousands of tiny cylindrical grooves that faced the lens , while the emulsion was on the back side ; the grooves ran horizontally ; the hektor lens carried a special tri- color filter , with three bands of the same width , one blue , one , green , and one red ; thus the color image was filtered and formed tiny strips on the film ..."



hope this helps
 
CLE-RF said:
Try finding an under 195000 serial number lens, they are in nickel and are much harder to find.
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I have one like that, glass is near-perfect. The finish is a bit different compared side-by-side with the later chrome Summar. I am wondering if the glass was different from the later lenses. It has held up exceptionally well, compared to me later Summar.
 
Brian,

Is there any 50mm lens you don't have !

Good for you. I love the history of lenses.
 
Nothing special about that lens......the rigid one`s are the rare ones and also the tropical issued one`s of 1938/39 (Jim Lager`s written about them) they also look very different then normal Summar`s.

I`m looking JUST for serial numbers when it comes to these, if anyone has one with near perfect glass built between
#498XXX to #503XXX (1939) let me know :)

Tom
 
Vince Lupo said:
Hmm...so I guess I'm not going to retire to that tropical vacation home I've always dreamed of. Drat - foiled again!
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No, not yet, you just need to find a mint boxed Grey paint MOOLY C K and a Grey paint Hektor 135mm with matching Grey paint VIOOH and a Black paint Summarex 85mm with all caps and hood in it`s original case and a Leica IIID and that`ll be a good downpayment on a summer vacation pad in Spain, Greece or Malta?............

ohh btw Vince, did you see that box full of parts Black MOOLY C on ebay a few nights ago sell for less then $500....it would have been a parts motor for yours, I wasn`t even going to think about buying that, I`ve decided it`s an original Grey one of nothing for me, I`m sure I can do without ;)

Tom
 
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LeicaTom said:
No, not yet, you just need to find a mint boxed Grey paint MOOLY C K and a Grey paint Hektor 135mm with matching Grey paint VIOOH and a Black paint Summarex 85mm with all caps and hood in it`s original case and a Leica IIID and that`ll be a good downpayment on a summer vacation pad in Spain, Greece or Malta?............

ohh btw Vince, did you see that box full of parts Black MOOLY C on ebay a few nights ago sell for less then $500....it would have been a parts motor for yours, I wasn`t even going to think about buying that, I`ve decided it`s an original Grey one of nothing for me, I`m sure I can do without ;)

Tom
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Yes I saw it and did bid, but I didn't get it. I think I'll just stick with the two that I have, as that one had all the black paint stripped off it, and no guarantee that everything was there. Plus, how much would it cost to have someone put that back together???

BTW, I'm pretty sure that my black one is NOT from 1949, as you suggested. There's no way that motor would work on a post-war IIIc, as the shaft in the motor will not work with the shaft in a post-war IIIc. That is definitely wartime, and is meant for IIIc's under 400,000. Plus, I've seen black motors with more wartime IIIc's (usually Luftwaffe ones) than with post-war ones....unless I haven't been getting out enough, which is certainly possible!
 
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Vince Lupo said:
BTW, I'm pretty sure that my black one is NOT from 1949, as you suggested. There's no way that motor would work on a post-war IIIc, as the shaft in the motor will not work with the shaft in a post-war IIIc. That is definitely wartime, and is meant for IIIc's under 400,000. Plus, I've seen black motors with more wartime IIIc's (usually Luftwaffe ones) than with post-war ones....unless I haven't been getting out enough, which is certainly possible!
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Jim Lager verified that motor with it`s production/delivery date and that it went to Stuttgart in 1949.

"Wartime" 1943 to 1945 MOOLY C`s and MOOLY C K`s were either Satin Chrome or painted RLM Grey. *less then 200 Chrome one swere made and maybe 50 to 75 of the Grey one`s.

There`s something like 200 to 300 Black one`s made, making them the most common of the longer bodied MOOLY motor`s. ~ total of motors is less then 500, Jim told me it`s like 400 something made totally.

The only reason you see Luftwaffen cameras on Black one`s is b/c they can`t afford/find the Chrome or Grey painted one`s ~ I`ve seen Black motors on IIIC K Grey`s but they were postwar add-on`s.

The Black MOOLY C`s didn`t come out till 1949, the motor you have has a modified shaft as it`s not got the T form, I showed the shaft in photos to Jim Lager and Don Goldberg and they both said it was modified for a camera, and is not as the shaft`s were originally.

Tom
 
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Yeah I figured that -- I just got a replacement shaft from Don a few days ago, and Frank Marshman is going to replace it for me.

But, let's just say that it was a normal 'T' form shaft -- it would not work with a post-war IIIc. From what I've seen of the post-war IIIc's, they have a shaft that's similar to a IIIf - which is that curved type of notch (almost like a 'V' shape) at the end of the winding shaft. That 'T' form would not fit. Now, look at the winding shaft on a Leicavit - it only has one 'arm' on its winding shaft, and it's meant for cameras over 400,000.
Likewise, i'm sure a SCNOO-C would not fit a post-war camera, though I've never seen one of those in the flesh.


The only thing I can surmise is that if my motor was of the post-war variety, they made it for a wartime camera, and maybe somebody modified it to fit a post war camera....I mean, why would someone remove one of the 'arms' on the winding shaft if it was supposed to work perfectly fine as-is? Or, maybe the wartime ones had the 'T' form, and the post-war ones had an 'L' form like mine? Doesn't make sense to me.
 
Personally, I feel better with my Summar (same style) with serious brassing on the barrel. It means it was one that the buyer was really happy with and used a lot. (This is from when there was more sample variation in Leica lenses.) My glass is every bit as good as in this lens -- this is what Summar glass should look like.

Even with the fine mechanical condition of this lens, the price seems nuts. Kevin would never sell it for that much.
 
Vince Lupo said:
Yeah I figured that -- I just got a replacement shaft from Don a few days ago, and Frank Marshman is going to replace it for me.
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WOW!

Now that was just luck it was.....cuz when I talked to Don like 4 months ago about it, he didn`t have any MOOLY C repair parts, finding a N.O.S. T shaft is like finding the needle in the haystack!

Ohh and John`s right about the BEST Shooting Summar`s are the one`s that are worn and brassed a bit, the former owners really enjoyed them......the other lens like that is the rigid Nikkor HC f2/50, when they are worn up and have dented rims you know they were "where the action is"!
(I regret selling mine, it had just the right amount of cleaning marks.......)

Tom
 
LeicaTom said:
WOW!

Now that was just luck it was.....cuz when I talked to Don like 4 months ago about it, he didn`t have any MOOLY C repair parts, finding a N.O.S. T shaft is like finding the needle in the haystack!
Tom
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I've listed it one more time for sale, and if it doesn't sell I'm going to keep it and get the shaft replaced. It will probably stay mated to my Luftwaffe IIIc.
 
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