Evolving Film Market 2020

[Skiff]

Show the data. And remember, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". Cheers, OtL

Film distributors have explained me that they meanwhile sell lots of volume (strongly increasing over the years) to Asian countries, mainly South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, Malyasia, HongKong, China.
In our national film photography magazine last year a report about film photography in China was published: Growth rates in film sales of 20-40% p.a., mainly color film.

If you look at youtube, the number of film photo channels from Asian countries has exploded over the last two years, with a strongly increasing number of subscribers.
Same on facebook and instagram. The biggest film photographer facebook group ("FILM PHOTO CLUB") is meanwhile a Vietnamese one. They have much more than double number of members as rff has (almost 150,000).
And in the also strongly growing 35mm Film Photography group on facebook (almost 100,000 members) recently a survey by the moderators was published from which countries the members are coming: And a very big and increasing part is coming from Asian countries.

 

[Prest_400]

I'm not a doom and gloom film person, I hope it thrives, but I'm a realist and the current global situation is going to ripple through the imaging industry for years. [...]
All this conjecture is based upon the hope that the COVID-19 situation is properly handled, brought under control and eventually conquered. With all the severe economic damage this virus is doing and will continue to do to our economy, most people aren't thinking about saving their hobbies of shooting film, or buying much more than what they need for survival.
Phil Forrest

I tend to fall on as a realist nowadays. I grew up as an optimist but life has its ways to show its ugly end. "You're a pessimist, don't think about the worst case scenarios, it's not going to happen, etc" well, you never know and know.

On a brighter side, I live in a northern European country that has roughly kept things "normal" and see that things are picking up. I met part of the youngster "hipster" group of our camera club for which I offered helping with getting some extra darkroom guidance. It's just 1 or 2 kids but they are very passionate and do good photography. I see they may be quite up to date in the hybrid side of film, whereas I moved towards more B&W darkroom. One of them has brought a friend along who likes the concept of film and is going in deeper.

I shot a couple rolls of Portra yesterday and ended up in an attic that neighbored an old closed theater. Neon still on and kept as a historical feature, but no events or cinema anymore. I thought about how Kodak will do in the Motion Pic end, which is the one that maintains the volumes of B38 manufacturing.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Film distributors have explained me that they meanwhile sell lots of volume (strongly increasing over the years) to Asian countries, mainly South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, Malyasia, HongKong, China.
In our national film photography magazine last year a report about film photography in China was published: Growth rates in film sales of 20-40% p.a., mainly color film.

If you look at youtube, the number of film photo channels from Asian countries has exploded over the last two years, with a strongly increasing number of subscribers.
Same on facebook and instagram. The biggest film photographer facebook group ("FILM PHOTO CLUB") is meanwhile a Vietnamese one. They have much more than double number of members as rff has (almost 150,000).
And in the also strongly growing 35 mm Film Photography group on facebook (almost 100,000 members) recently a survey by the moderators was published from which countries the members are coming: And a very big and increasing part is coming from Asian countries.

Thanks for your effort but this is not data. At least for now, I conclude that analogue photography in Vietnam remains a tiny niche market that has trouble surviving, especially in the post-Covid-19 environment -closed borders. Almost all analogue shops have disappeared and sold their equipment many years ago. In Ho Chi Minh City, with 10 million inhabitants, there are not more than a handful shops left that will develop analogue film. The price is high and the customers are few and far in-between. Cheers, OtL

 

[Skiff]

Thanks for your effort but this is not data. At least for now, I conclude that analogue photography in Vietnam remains a tiny niche market that has trouble surviving, especially in the post-Covid-19 environment -closed borders. Almost all analogue shops have disappeared and sold their equipment many years ago. In Ho Chi Minh City, with 10 million inhabitants, there are not more than a handful shops left that will develop analogue film. The price is high and the customers are few and far in-between. Cheers, OtL

I have meanwhile direct contact to several photographers in Vietnam and in other Asian countries, and their reports are completely different to yours.
I do trust them. Because you have been completely wrong.
By the way, rff member Kiemchasu from Vietnam has also several times confirmed that there is a film renaissance in Vietnam.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Good for you. I just happen to live there. Cheers, OtL

 

[gavinlg]

Show the data. And remember, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". Cheers, OtL

Thanks for your effort but this is not data. At least for now, I conclude that analogue photography in Vietnam remains a tiny niche market that has trouble surviving, especially in the post-Covid-19 environment -closed borders. Almost all analogue shops have disappeared and sold their equipment many years ago. In Ho Chi Minh City, with 10 million inhabitants, there are not more than a handful shops left that will develop analogue film. The price is high and the customers are few and far in-between. Cheers, OtL

This seems pretty anecdotal for such a conclusive statement...

The internet has completely changed and democratised how things like film cameras are bought and sold - even things like film processing and film sales. Kodak saw a 21% growth in their film market from 2018 to 2019.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Used film cameras declining stock is just a myth spread for profit. Just recently I was able to get three working F mount film cameras for very low price. Same for two serviced, new parts LTM cameras. Man, I should sell them all and get one FM3A 🙂.
But those are not Kardashian's cameras.

 

[Out to Lunch]

The internet has completely changed and democratised how things like film cameras are bought and sold - even things like film processing and film sales

Nice try, with the exception that you don't know what you are talking about. In Vietnam, the importation of second-hand cameras is prohibited by law, and the importation of film is subjected to high import taxes. Cheers, OtL

 

[Huss]

Nice try, with the exception that you don't know what you are talking about. In Vietnam, the importation of second-hand cameras is prohibited by law, and the importation of film is subjected to high import taxes. Cheers, OtL

So in Vietnam regulations are what is keeping the film market down.

That's too bad, but not reflective of other markets.

 

[Huss]

"Reflex" camera updated its kickstarter site in May 2020: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ng-back-the-analogue-slr-camera/posts/2840358

Like the naive film nut I am, I backed them.

It would be nice if they succeeded but I will be pleasantly surprised if they do.

 

[Archlich]

Yes, kids are grabbing whatever the latest film P&S (or more expensive staff) influencers on Instagram had been using. The "luxury" compacts have gone way over the roof, now it's the turn for the more moderate, consumer models - as long as it's posh and shiny, not black and dull. Mizuhara Kiko drove the price of the Pentax Espio 160 (something used to be available for free) up with a single selfie. So much have been going on recently, most of us just didn't bother to care.

What I do care is that a roll of 135-36 Gold 200 now costs $5.49. $5.99 for the X-tra 400, the film I consume most. Superia 200 is gone for good. "New" releases come every month - the majority of them are quirky staff that cost $10+ per roll.

 

[Archlich]

I'm the oldest person at Toronto Downtown Camera who is showing up with film cameras and pays for film and processing. One from sales even called me as the young man.

Recently I even seen young person with film SLR in our neighbourhood. In addition to our daughter 🙂. It was like seeing same planet spaceship. I'm the only one walking with film camera in the neighbourhood.

Toronto Downtown Camera seems to be last spot dedicated for film with crowds. Young crowds. I saw Somalian Muslim young females buying Ilford film camera. Young Asian buying TLR and another bringing huge MF SLR. Toronto Queen Street tattooed ones are here as well.

Hopefully greedy manufacturers prices on film will not drain it out.
I paid some huge money for roll of Porta. Going to use it for one month. 🙂

I remember talking the the owner not long after they'd moved next door to take up the space Henry's left vacant - he said business was surging. Which is a nice thing!

 

[Out to Lunch]

So in Vietnam regulations are what is keeping the film market down.

It's changing.

 

[Huss]

What I do care is that a roll of 135-36 Gold 200 now costs $5.49. $5.99 for the X-tra 400, the film I consume most. Superia 200 is gone for good. "New" releases come every month - the majority of them are quirky staff that cost $10+ per roll.

$12 for 3 rolls of 36exp Fuji C200. I'm pretty sure it is the same thing as Superia 200 - I can't tell any difference.


https://www.freestylephoto.biz/600018966-Fuji-Fujicolor-200-ISO-35mm-x-36-exp.-3-Pack

 

[Phil_F_NM]

We will all just have to see. Forums like this one are an echo chamber, for the most part. When we are outside, we see a few folks using film cameras and we may begin to look for that. So we may collect our own data through a filter of confirmation bias. If there is a market for the creation of new film cameras, the camera manufacturers are already on this and speculating how much the cost and profit will be. If enough people want to buy it, someone will make it.
Phil Forrest

 

[Archlich]

$12 for 3 rolls of 36exp Fuji C200. I'm pretty sure it is the same thing as Superia 200 - I can't tell any difference.


https://www.freestylephoto.biz/600018966-Fuji-Fujicolor-200-ISO-35mm-x-36-exp.-3-Pack

Yes. I'm stocking up the $13.99 X-tra 400 pack of 3 at B&H.

Still. Checked my order history and it was $9.99 last May.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I remember talking the the owner not long after they'd moved next door to take up the space Henry's left vacant - he said business was surging. Which is a nice thing!

I hope so. On Friday I went to Henry's after getting my film from the lab and Canon RP from Downtown Camera and Henry's didn't have as much shoppers in the store as Down Town Camera has all the time I'm where. Aden camera film section was covered by the dust in 2019.
Here is another dedicated to film store in GTA. Birligton camera. They have very good selection of film gear for much better price than Downtown Camera. Used enlargers for cheap, all kinds of darkroom things and good selection of film, paper.

 

[Guth]

Setting aside things like individual markets and pricing (most everything costs more now than would have been the case just a few years ago), what I would find interesting to know is what particular film stocks have been discontinued over the past 5 years as compared to what film stocks have been introduced or reintroduced in that same period of time.

Is anyone following this thread aware of such information? If so a link to any related details would be much appreciated.

 

[Pál_K]

Apparently New Zealand and everywhere else has people using film cameras. I'm in a reasonably scenic area with tourists and 95% of the time I see cellphone cameras. 4.9% of the time someone is using a small digital camera.

The last 0.1%, when someone was using a film camera, was in 2013 when my car club went on a tour to Paul Allen's flight museum, where they fly WWI and WWII and other aircraft. That guy had an X-Pro1 and a Hasselblad 500C.

That's anecdotal, yes, but a film photographer around here is more rare than a Stradivarius violin. When I'm out with my Rolleiflex, Leica, or whatever, I don't think people here realize I have a camera. No one even notices it.

I supported Reflex as well. I give them credit for persevering, but they never embraced simplicity in their design.

 

[madNbad]

A few years back I found this list of Kodak film stocks. It would be interesting to know how many are still in production: http://www.taphilo.com/Photo/kodakfilmnumxref.shtml