Experiences with Xtol

[Uncle Bill]

I am toying with playing with Xtol, I am curious to hear the good bad and the ugly on this developer.

 

[mr_phillip]

Good - great results with every film I've ever used it with, especially the Fuji Neopans which are magical in XTOL. Wonderful for pushing films. Tunable sharpness/tonality by changing the dilution.

Bad - powder to make 5 litres only, it goes off on a dime with no warning or indication, short lifespan (6 months if you're VERY lucky, 4 is more realistic in my experience).

 

[troym]

One follow up on the "bad." I've been using Xtol exclusively for the past few years. I've actually found that, if mixed and stored under the right conditions, it can last quite a bit longer than the suggested 6 months.

The problem is that it doesn't give signs of dying in the way that other developers do. So, I've ended up being conservative and just dumping any batch that's more than 6 months old. That adds to the expense, but it's worth it.

 

[f/stopblues]

I've switched to Xtol exclusively in the past 6 months or so and use it with HP5+ in 35mm, 120, and 4x5. I've been really pleased with the results even though I make a huge mess every time I go to mix it.

I used the last bit of my last batch after a little over 7 1/2 months and it was fine. I kept it in a dark plastic jug in a cabinet with no serious attention paid to the amount of air that was in there. Maybe I just got lucky, but it performed perfectly. I kept most in a large jug and transfered to a "working jug" every so often.

It really helped my negs get out of that flat slump they were in when I was using HC-110. I never did find a dilution/time/film speed combo that would make it sing.

*EDIT* - Something else to add.. I think Kodak and Digital Truth list HP5+ @400 to develop 1+1 at 11 min. That's far too long in a lot of people's opinion; 8.5 min. seems much better suited. That may be the case for other films but I've never looked.

 

[Mackinaw]

I've used Xtol for years, it's my standard developer for higher speed films. If stored in a air-tight container, you can store it much longer than 6 months. I've heard stories about Xtol just dying, without warning, but this has never happened to me. Only thing that bugs me is that it only comes in a 5 litre package.

Jim B.

 

[kipkeston]

It's my developer of choice. It gives me great results pushing tri-x and I am very happy. I think I go through it far faster than it will ever go bad. It's great stuff.

 

[Uncle Bill]

Thanks for the input I am going to give Xtol a try at some point.

 

[rich815]

As can be seen above a number of people really like it. I personally have tried it 3-4 times in the last few years intermitently and just was not thrilled with the results with most films. Nothing bad, but nothing that great. Tonally sort of blah and not very good edge effects. I personally much prefer D-76 or Rodinal, depending on the film. I wanted to like it as it's supposedly safer or better for the environment but the powder mixing is a pain, as is the 5 liters all at once but I'm willing to put up with that for good results. The latter just was not there for me. But this is just my personal experience and we all expect or want different results with B&W film so take it for what it's worth...

 

[Trius]

I just mixed up a 5L batch and will use it for the first time this weekend. After mixing I poured it into a (cleaned) 5L wine bladder from box wine (MY WIFE BUYS THAT STUFF NOT ME!!!), so now I have an air-tight container with convenient pour spout and sturdy boxboard casing. I think it will match well with poached whitefish.

I'll be using the Rodinal/Xtol combo formula I got from Honus, who got it from Patrick Gainer on APUG.

Rich, if you look at Honus' work here or on flickr, he has lots of samples. Very good stuff.

 

[Rob-F]

XTOL was originally available in one-liter packets. There were a lot of stories about "The Dreaded XTOL Failure" and the word was out that if the powder had gone lumpy in the package, you shouldn't use it, throw it out. Then Kodak chose to discontinue the one-liter pak, with the explanation that it could not be kept stable in such a small quantity. And then only the 5-liter pack was available.

I emailed Kodak to beg them to consider packing XTOL in a two-liter pack, perhaps it would be stable if they worked on the package design a bit. The reply was a curt "We have no intention of doing this."

I did recently mix a 5-liter batch (what a pain), which I'm using now. My understanding is that it is thought to be a better developer than D-76 for the newer, T-grained films, and I had some Delta Pro 100 and 400 to develop. Also wanted to try it on a roll of Neopan 1600. The negs look pretty good for the Delta films, but the Neopan 1600, shot at 800, looked anemic. I note that Fuji doesn't offer a listing on the box for XTOL, and Ilford doesn't list XTOL for HP-5, on the box, either. So I suppose, in view of my wimpy reults, there is a reason why Fuji does not give a time for this developer. And I will do all the HP-5 in my usual "Rob's Micro-76" formula (it's d-76 and Microdol in equal parts, used 1:1 or greater dilution). Just to be on the safe side.

 

[rodneyAB]

XTOL remains a fave with Acros, and i like it with Presto. I like Rodinal just as much. Like Trius above, I've taken the cue from Honus, and have mixed the Xtol and the Rodinal together.
I have read that the sudden death syndrome of Xtol is an overblown myth, and that the 5 liter mix alleviates the pproblems from the older 1 liter packets that generated the myth on Xtol sudden death syndrome

 

[mr_phillip]

I assure you that the sudden death of XTOL stock solution is no myth, I've fallen foul of it twice myself. Nowadays I only use it where I know I'm going to be developing a significant quantity of film over the coming weeks, or when I've got an existing backlog of films to get through. FYI I mix my XTOL using distilled water, and store it in filled-to-the-brim, air-tight brown Winchester glass bottles - same way I store every other developer.

For slow films I generally use Rodinal or Neofin Blue, but for fast (800ASA+) and tabular emulsions I find XTOL hard to better. My particular fave is Neopan 1600 developed in XTOL 1+1 for 8.5 minutes:

 

[Freakscene]

Given the usual criteria (fine grain, sharpness, good tonality) Xtol is the best commercially available developer for 35 mm film. It uses an ascorbate and a phenidone derivative as developing agents. This means it works at high dilutions. If you use Xtol and don't experiment with dilutions you are doing yourself a disservice. Ascorbates have development by-products that are development restrainers - this leads to excellent compensation (and not just through dilution). It also has a buffer as its major alkali, meaning it operates at a lower pH, which encourages finer grain.

http://leica-users.org/v35/msg07982.html

To avoid having it go off, mix it with distilled water and fill small bottles from your 5L batch. If you completely fill them and store in the dark they will last 12 months +. You need to use distilled water of known quality or it can oxidise quickly.

The link I've included above has some do-it yourself formulae that replicate Xtol and several of which last almost indefinitely.

Marty

 

[Film dino]

Given the usual criteria (fine grain, sharpness, good tonality) Xtol is the best commercially available developer for 35 mm film. It uses an ascorbate and a phenidone derivative as developing agents. This means it works at high dilutions. If you use Xtol and don't experiment with dilutions you are doing yourself a disservice. Ascorbates have development by-products that are development restrainers - this leads to excellent compensation (and not just through dilution). It also has a buffer as its major alkali, meaning it operates at a lower pH, which encourages finer grain.

http://leica-users.org/v35/msg07982.html

To avoid having it go off, mix it with distilled water and fill small bottles from your 5L batch. If you completely fill them and store in the dark they will last 12 months +. You need to use distilled water of known quality or it can oxidise quickly.

The link I've included above has some do-it yourself formulae that replicate Xtol and several of which last almost indefinitely.

Marty

This is informative & enlightening, thank you.
David

 

[ChrisN]

Does storage temperature make a difference to developer longevity? Should I keep it in the fridge with the film?

 

[Freakscene]

If you have refrigeration available, storing developers cold will slow oxidation. In my experience, living in a place where it routinely gets to 45C in summer (Chris I see you're in Canberra - I live in Adelaide), temperature has a lot less to do with Xtol oxidising than oxygen. Keep the air out and it will be okay. You can buy spray to keep wine fresh:
http://www.amazon.com/Oenophilia-Private-Preserve-Wine-Preserver/dp/B0000DCS18
that will do the same thing for open bottles of developer.

I'm not even sure about storing it dark; I've just always stored it dark. Theoretically the reactions could have some photochemical involvement, but I've not tested it.

Marty

 

[ath]

I use XTOL since several years and never had a failure with the 5l packs.
I dissolve the powder in "distilled" water to make 2.5 liter (!) and fill this in four 0.5l bottles and four 0.1l bottles, which take 0.125l when completely full.
For use in my Jobo 1520 I simply take one small bottle (equivalent to 0.25l stock) and dilute it to 0.5l, giving XTOL 1+1.
This gives me one-shot portions. When the small bottles are empty, I refill them from a 0.5l bottle.
This way XTOL is good for at least 17 months (checked with densitometer).
I toss what I haven't used after one year.

As a quick and dirty test to check, if the developer is still alive, I put a drop of my concentrate on the film leader and check if it becomes black. At the same time I can check the clear time of the fixer.

One 5l pack of XTOL per year - this is quite cheap.
Water quality seems to be crucial with XTOL - always use distilled water.

 

[Keith]

I've just developed my first couple of rolls of 400 Neopan in XTOL and it appears to do a better job than the D76 I have been using. I actually lashed out and bought a couple of the concertina type bottles for storage and they are very good provided the caps seal totally. I'm looking forward to trying XTOL with HP5. 🙂

 

[maddoc]

For slow films I generally use Rodinal or Neofin Blue, but for fast (800ASA+) and tabular emulsions I find XTOL hard to better. My particular fave is Neopan 1600 developed in XTOL 1+1 for 8.5 minutes:

This looks very good to me ! I have just bought a 5l package of XTOL but not tried yet (Have to use the D76 first) Quite keen to see how XTOL will work with Tri-X (pushed to 800) In the above photo, was the Neopan rated @ true 1600 ? How often do you agitate the tank ?

 

[Freakscene]

>concertina type bottles

Hold bubbles in the crimps and are actually worse than plain bottles. I have demonstrated this in repeated tests. Sorry.

Marty