Expired Xtol?

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sinisaostojic

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Today, I have developed a roll of 120 film in 3.5 months old Xtol and got completely clear negative roll. Could it be that the Xtol has expired?

As I was experimenting with a flash and new to me camera, I am trying to narrow down what could have caused the clear negative. I have used the same camera, with same film, same batch of developer two weeks ago and had good results.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
I have had the same problem with XTOL. Now I test it before use with a piece of photo paper if it has been more than a couple of weeks since I used it.
 
Same here, sudden death. But 3,5 months seems short if the storage was ok (airtight and filled to the brim), 6 months should be mimimum, according to Kodak. My Xtol was expired after 7 months.
 
Do you see frame numbers along the edges of the film? If not, you put the film in fixer first.

I’ve stored Xtol as long as a year, in a well sealed, air-tight container.

Jim B.
 
Dave - Same thought led me to believe the developer could be expired.
Mackinaw - Frame numbers & film info were there, which confirms I did not use fixer first. I am quite careful with these things. It is good to know that the film info would not appear should I have used a fixer first.
Straightmp - I keep my developer in 1l containers filled to the top in a dark place, in hope to extend the life as much as reasonably possible.
Robbeiflex - That is a good tip, I'll remember it for the future.

After looking at what else could have caused the clear negatives, I believe the problem was in the camera shutter setting. I was using Mamiya C330 with flash at 1/250@f8, ambient measured at 2s@f8. Apparently there are two flash settings on the camera, M and X. I did not know about this, until reading about it today. I had the camera at M, by default. It appears the M setting is for old bulb type flash and has shutter delay, where as X is for an electronic flash.

I now believe that the M setting caused delay i.e. did not sync correctly with the camera.

Thank you all for your comments.
 
I think you guys have it opposite: If the XTOL went bad, you would get nothing, including no frame numbers. I agree that it is an exposure problem.

Also, from what I hear, the XTOL sudden death syndrome was with the 1L mixtures years back. They don't make those anymore and the 5L mix is much more reliable. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
 
sinisaostojic said:
......After looking at what else could have caused the clear negatives, I believe the problem was in the camera shutter setting. I was using Mamiya C330 with flash at 1/250@f8, ambient measured at 2s@f8. Apparently there are two flash settings on the camera, M and X. I did not know about this, until reading about it today. I had the camera at M, by default. It appears the M setting is for old bulb type flash and has shutter delay, where as X is for an electronic flash.

I now believe that the M setting caused delay i.e. did not sync correctly with the camera.......
Click to expand...

I think you figured it out. If the flash synch is set to “M,’ You’re going to get just what you saw on your negs (nothing). And yes, I speak from experience.

Jim B.
 
gfeucht said:
......Also, from what I hear, the XTOL sudden death syndrome was with the 1L mixtures years back. They don't make those anymore and the 5L mix is much more reliable. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Click to expand...

That is certainly the majority view judging by what I've read on the net (for what it's worth). It is still probably a developer more sensitive to certain water impurities than most others, which might explain why various people's experience differs.

I'm glad the OP sorted out the problem. The two flash settings was well known to folks of my age, (we even used disposable flash globes) but it's understandable the others would not have come across it.
 
I bought a bag B/4 they had dates on them. Worked on one roll, near failure a week later. Kodak says it was expired.

They also said there is no way to test its activity level at home. They are fully aware of the dots and clip tests etc. They are simply no accurate enough even for pass /fail.

Bought some metol etc and went back to home made D76. I no longer chase the perfect developer, but spend time making images.
 
After repeating the whole process again, I can confirm that the problem was with the shutter flash setting and not the developer. Three and a half months old and XTOL is still working well.

Thank you all for your comments.
 
gfeucht said:
Also, from what I hear, the XTOL sudden death syndrome was with the 1L mixtures years back. They don't make those anymore and the 5L mix is much more reliable. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Click to expand...

I mix 5L at a time, and then decant them into 3 x 1L bottles full and sealed air tight, and one 2L accordion bottle. The failed XTOL was in the accordion bottle which definitely had a good amount of air in it and had sat unused for a long time. Since then I refill the accordion bottle from one of the others to make sure there is no air in it, and I do the paper test when it has been sitting for a long time or is the last part of the batch. After some four years of XTOL that was my only failure, and none since. So I guess the problem is resolved from a Kodak perspective, but operator error is still a factor.

Cheers,
Rob
 
Recently I developed a roll of film in XTOL which has been stored in a 1L bottle
(with gas on the top) for 13 months. It came out fine!

Thomas
 
Same here, never had any problems with storing Xtol. I use 1L plastic Jobo bottles (or even cleaned water bottles) with a bit of gas an top, stored at room temp and not even dark. It lasts 12+ months for me. I use dist. water to make the stock.

Isn't the whole "Xtol sudden death" thing one big myth?
 
I've just learnt this lesson (XTOL sudden death shelf life) the hard way. Developed 2 rolls 35mm FP4+ in 150ml XTOL that had been stored in a plastic concertina bottle. The mixture was first made up 5 months previously. Dev tank required 580ml so I diluted the remaining 150ml in 450ml water (1:3), at 14.75m as per Massive Dev Chart. Resulting negs were very thin, almost completely transparent, exposed frames barely visible under bright light.

Because there was so little XTOL full strength remaining in the concertina storage bottle, there was a quite a lot of air remaining. I'd used the same solution about 4 weeks previously so I thought there'd be no problem. The storage bottle had been in a dark closet which was at room temp, but this was through an Australian summer so it could easily have reached high 20s.

Both rolls were exposed in an F80 which has DX coding and has never had a problem with exposure.

Next time, I'll test the developer first. I do like the results I get with XTOL.
 
I don't really understand the sudden XTOL death. I have nearly 2 year old mixed XTOL still going strong here... and it was not even stored well.
 
Filzkoeter said:
I don't really understand the sudden XTOL death. I have nearly 2 year old mixed XTOL still going strong here... and it was not even stored well.
Click to expand...

I don't understand it either.. maybe there's a difference in the water (I use tap water, which in Sydney, is pretty good).

I remember now this did happen to me once before, when the XTOL was just over 6 months old. I suspect the local tap water may be the culprit. As long as I remember to test it once it ages over about 4 months I should be OK.
 
X-tol is the only developer I have used in about 10 years. I mix the 5 liter packages up with distilled water, store it in 8 oz glass bottles with as little air a possible at the top.
Then before use dilute to 1:1. Never a problem - even after a year.

I usually throw out any mixed developer over 1 year old.
 
thanks besk, I'll use distilled water and be careful with the amount of air in the storage vessel in future.
 
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