dpetrzelka
Well-known
Tom- Did you shoot the XX w/ Rodinal at 250 ASA?
Exposing Eastman (Double-X) 5222 in the Leica
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cosmonot
uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝʞ
projectbluebird said:
I like the Heico stuff because it has an indicator in it that changes color as it nears exhaustion. I just mix a gallon at a time and reuse it until the fixer starts to die. I've got some of the Kodak stuff that I'll use eventually, but I guess I'm just partial to chemistry that I don't have to mix from powder 😉
L
lkgroup
Guest
I also have standardized my processing.
I do use a Jobo rotary processor
1) Developer 10% less time for Jobo motion in processor
2) Rinse of Water 30 Sec
3) FIX Rapid Fix
4) Two quick changes of Water
5) 3 Changes of water for a rinse about 3-5 minutes total
6) dip in Photo flo (30sec).
7) Hang up to dry. I built a wood drying cabinet which can hold 8 rolls at time.
8) Dry over night or at least 12 hours
9) Cut negs store in a file sheets in strips of six
Leo
I do use a Jobo rotary processor
1) Developer 10% less time for Jobo motion in processor
2) Rinse of Water 30 Sec
3) FIX Rapid Fix
4) Two quick changes of Water
5) 3 Changes of water for a rinse about 3-5 minutes total
6) dip in Photo flo (30sec).
7) Hang up to dry. I built a wood drying cabinet which can hold 8 rolls at time.
8) Dry over night or at least 12 hours
9) Cut negs store in a file sheets in strips of six
Leo
tomasis
Well-known
so it doesn't need stop between develop and fix for film?
What for benefits do photoflo/hypo for films? I never used it and I haven't noticed if I did need it. Maybe is it easier to keep off dust?
What for benefits do photoflo/hypo for films? I never used it and I haven't noticed if I did need it. Maybe is it easier to keep off dust?
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Photoflow is a "wetting agent", keeping the last rinse from forming distict droplets on the film. Instead it just flows off smoothly and acts to an expent as a lubricant if you squeegy the off the water. The main advantage of the water rinse between developer and the fixer is it keeps the alkaline developer from getting into, and neutralizing, the acidity of the fixer. It makes the fixer last longer.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
I did shoot the XX at 250 asa (or close to that as I was shooting "sunny f16" style - no metering). Glancing at the negs they look a bit overexposed so the true speed would be around 320/400 but the exposure latitude seems to have taken care of that. Will see later when I start scanning.
As for Photo Flo, it is basically a detergent that reduces the surface tension of the water and allows it to run freely. Only problem is that it aslo takes every speck of dust, dislodged gelatin etc and it migrates to the end of the film when it hangs up. Usually in an area that is the start of the film so it it mostly in the solid blacks.
The other problem with Photoflo is that it can attach itself to the reels and cause "foaming" when you do the next run! Very irritating as it can almost pop the lid off tthe tank! I do rinse the reels afterwards, but it is a tenacious product and can stick to the Paterson reels. The trick is to use only a couple of drops of the stuff.
Almost through the first 400 ft of the year. In February I will try some more developers. PCK/Td 201/Pyro-Cat (though the latter does not scan that well - the tanning effect renders the negs khaki brown and the scanner cant figure it out).
As for Photo Flo, it is basically a detergent that reduces the surface tension of the water and allows it to run freely. Only problem is that it aslo takes every speck of dust, dislodged gelatin etc and it migrates to the end of the film when it hangs up. Usually in an area that is the start of the film so it it mostly in the solid blacks.
The other problem with Photoflo is that it can attach itself to the reels and cause "foaming" when you do the next run! Very irritating as it can almost pop the lid off tthe tank! I do rinse the reels afterwards, but it is a tenacious product and can stick to the Paterson reels. The trick is to use only a couple of drops of the stuff.
Almost through the first 400 ft of the year. In February I will try some more developers. PCK/Td 201/Pyro-Cat (though the latter does not scan that well - the tanning effect renders the negs khaki brown and the scanner cant figure it out).
projectbluebird
Film Abuser
tomasis, most developers aren't active enough to need an acid stop. The water in the step between development and fixing acts as a gentle stop bath.
Hypo clearing agent (hypoclear) and Photo-flo are two separate chemicals. Photo-flo has been well explained, so I'll tackle Hypoclear. Hypoclear is basically a salt solution (sodium-something, I can't remember off the top of my head) that is absorbed by the emulsion to displace any remaining fixer. This acts as a washing aid because hypo is easier to rinse out than fixer.
For example, Tom's process is:
develop
rinse
fix
wash, running water 20min
photo-flo, 30s no agitation
dry
with Hypo, it might go like this:
develop
rinse
fix
rinse
hypo, 3 min
wash, running water 10min.
photo-flo, 30s no agitation
dry
From what I've been finding, the Ilford rinsing method (which many of the posters here use, or a variation thereof) seems to be archival enough for the ISO standards, something along the lines of 500 years stability.
That process would be:
develop
rinse (water stop)
fix (non-hardening fixer!)
Ilford rinse
Dry
As you can see, the quickest and cheapest solution. Something to be recommended for those of us with tight budgets (money and time)
Incidentally, the lab I learned in did not use Kodak's recommendation on photo-flo. (1:200) It was closer to twice that, and with distilled water instead of tap. We never had problems with foaming. We also used stainless steel tanks and reels and you weren't allowed to leave unless everything you checked back in was clean and dry!
I hope this helps.
Hypo clearing agent (hypoclear) and Photo-flo are two separate chemicals. Photo-flo has been well explained, so I'll tackle Hypoclear. Hypoclear is basically a salt solution (sodium-something, I can't remember off the top of my head) that is absorbed by the emulsion to displace any remaining fixer. This acts as a washing aid because hypo is easier to rinse out than fixer.
For example, Tom's process is:
develop
rinse
fix
wash, running water 20min
photo-flo, 30s no agitation
dry
with Hypo, it might go like this:
develop
rinse
fix
rinse
hypo, 3 min
wash, running water 10min.
photo-flo, 30s no agitation
dry
From what I've been finding, the Ilford rinsing method (which many of the posters here use, or a variation thereof) seems to be archival enough for the ISO standards, something along the lines of 500 years stability.
That process would be:
develop
rinse (water stop)
fix (non-hardening fixer!)
Ilford rinse
fill, invert 5 times, drain
fill, invert 10 times, drain
fill, invert 20 times, drain
photo-flo, 30s no agitationfill, invert 10 times, drain
fill, invert 20 times, drain
Dry
As you can see, the quickest and cheapest solution. Something to be recommended for those of us with tight budgets (money and time)
Incidentally, the lab I learned in did not use Kodak's recommendation on photo-flo. (1:200) It was closer to twice that, and with distilled water instead of tap. We never had problems with foaming. We also used stainless steel tanks and reels and you weren't allowed to leave unless everything you checked back in was clean and dry!
I hope this helps.
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S
stevew
Guest
Hypo!!!!
Hypo!!!!
You are confusing the guy. Hypo is the old name for components in fixer.
Non-hardening fixing bath
Water, 125F/52C500 mlSodium Thiosulfate (Hypo)240 gSodium Sulfite (anhydrous)10 gSodium Bisulfite (anhydrous)25 gCold water to make1L
Hypo Clearing agent.
Wash aid for film and paper
Water750 mlSodium Sulfite (anhydrous)100 gSodium Metabisulfite25 gCold water to make1L
Chemical formulas are from DigitaltruthPhoto
Hypo!!!!
You are confusing the guy. Hypo is the old name for components in fixer.
Non-hardening fixing bath
Water, 125F/52C500 mlSodium Thiosulfate (Hypo)240 gSodium Sulfite (anhydrous)10 gSodium Bisulfite (anhydrous)25 gCold water to make1L
Hypo Clearing agent.
Wash aid for film and paper
Water750 mlSodium Sulfite (anhydrous)100 gSodium Metabisulfite25 gCold water to make1L
Chemical formulas are from DigitaltruthPhoto
Nokton48
Veteran
Found this old thread while googling:
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00DViY
Looks like XX run through Diafine can possibly yield EI400- EI800 range negtives with decent quallity. Take a look at the photos, they look pretty good to me. I have a fresh gallon Diafine kit in the basement, I need to mix it up soon. Somebody should compare once-run Diafine with twice-run Diafine with XX. A five minute rinse between B, then back into A, should be sufficent, don't you guys think? Just don't want to contaminate my Diafine. I've read that XX in Diafine is preferable to Tri-X in Diafine. That is interesting news.
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00DViY
Looks like XX run through Diafine can possibly yield EI400- EI800 range negtives with decent quallity. Take a look at the photos, they look pretty good to me. I have a fresh gallon Diafine kit in the basement, I need to mix it up soon. Somebody should compare once-run Diafine with twice-run Diafine with XX. A five minute rinse between B, then back into A, should be sufficent, don't you guys think? Just don't want to contaminate my Diafine. I've read that XX in Diafine is preferable to Tri-X in Diafine. That is interesting news.
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Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Just finished scanning in a bunch of Double XX/Rodinal negs on our Flickr site. Looks OK, but the Adox/D76 looks smoother.
Back to the shooting and some other soups. Will keep posting.
Back to the shooting and some other soups. Will keep posting.
tomasis
Well-known
thanks for replies
bluebird, I gonna try all methods as you described above. Ilford method sounds very good. I have Patersson reels (platstic) and I'll se what I'll do and it add more confusion when I'll get Jobo CPE2 soon 😱 I have to use Hypo WA which is stored many years unused yet.😎
Those images from photo-net look great btw though too small to see.
bluebird, I gonna try all methods as you described above. Ilford method sounds very good. I have Patersson reels (platstic) and I'll se what I'll do and it add more confusion when I'll get Jobo CPE2 soon 😱 I have to use Hypo WA which is stored many years unused yet.😎
Those images from photo-net look great btw though too small to see.
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Nokton48
Veteran
I just finished a session in my basement darkroom, loading up a box of ten Kodak Snap-Caps with the Double XX film. Kept the scissors in my back pocket, when I wasn't using them, used masking tape and put the snapcaps into the 400' filmcan lid, so I wouldn't loose them in the dark. It went pretty fast and well, I did ruin one cartridge putting the lid back on it, so I lost one roll, but it could have simply been a bent cartridge, I think that was the case.
Loading ten snapcaps to a box, it won't take long to use up my first 400' roll of XX.
BTW 20ml of Adox Replenisher isn't very much volume per roll. So I just pour the Replenisher back into the bottle after the run. Some of the developer volume is lost during the processing, so there is plenty of room for the replenisher.
So now I've got another fresh roll of XX in M2, been playing off my CV 35 Skopar vs the 35 Ultron , as well as my Canon F1.2 vs my 50 CV Nokton (so far). It's fun to take out, and I think I'm using the Leica more than I've used the Bassas, it's such a pleasure to work with it. In fact, I'm thinking of selling my two R bodies, and my T, and buying a second M2 🙂.
Tom, I need to focus-test my lenses on the M2. I see your tests on flicker. Any helpful hints?
-Dan
Loading ten snapcaps to a box, it won't take long to use up my first 400' roll of XX.
BTW 20ml of Adox Replenisher isn't very much volume per roll. So I just pour the Replenisher back into the bottle after the run. Some of the developer volume is lost during the processing, so there is plenty of room for the replenisher.
So now I've got another fresh roll of XX in M2, been playing off my CV 35 Skopar vs the 35 Ultron , as well as my Canon F1.2 vs my 50 CV Nokton (so far). It's fun to take out, and I think I'm using the Leica more than I've used the Bassas, it's such a pleasure to work with it. In fact, I'm thinking of selling my two R bodies, and my T, and buying a second M2 🙂.
Tom, I need to focus-test my lenses on the M2. I see your tests on flicker. Any helpful hints?
-Dan
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Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Dan, I told you that M2's are addictive!
My testing is practical, not scientific. I set up a tripod and stick the camera on it. Measure off 1meter,2 meter and 5 meter with a tape measure. I try to make it either parallel to the optical plane. If you can do it outside, use sticks (you might have to explain to the family where the broomsticks went). If you are doing it inside - set it up at a slightly oblique angle and measure from the filmplane. Shoot everything at wide-open, a mid way stop (5,6-8) and at full stop down. For the 1 meter and the 2 meter shot, put three items down, one dead on 1 meter, one at 90cm and the third one at 110 cm (and the same for the 2meter setting,190/200/210 cm). I tend to use known objects, that old T-bird model (1:18) or old 100ft boxes from Kodak and an ACROS 100ft box as the "key" as it has heavy type on it and it makes it easy to see. Get a small pad with post it notes and "tag" each shot with f-stop and lens. Stick the Post-it's on the "key" box as a extra "focus=point" It is somewhat boring to do, but it will teach you which lens is best at what distance and f-stop. OK, you will promptly forget all of this when you go shooting. but at least you tried!
For "absolute" resolution you can do the "classified ad" test. Take you local paper and take the classified section, iron it (you explain it to the family!) and stick it up. Try to find a spot that has even light across the whole thing. Put the tripod and lens about 2.5-3 meters away (with the 50mm), closer with the 35 and check that it is at 90 degree angle to the page. Again shoot at least 3 shots (wide-open, mid range and fully stopped down).
There are theories that you shall be 100 times the focal length from the subject. I usually ensure that the double page fills the area covered by the framelines for that lens! These negs are best checked with a loup or in an enlarger. Remember the post it notes here too - one page looks pretty much like another one if you dont tag them.
The other school is that you should use the finest grain film possible. I dont agree - I use the film I will be shooting the most with. If it looks good with Tech Pan @8asa, doesn't mean it will look good with triX/XX pushed to 800 or above as grain/contrast will start to affect the image.
So the family will declare you legally insane, but look from the bright side - they wont expect any rational deciscions from you later either!
Tom
My testing is practical, not scientific. I set up a tripod and stick the camera on it. Measure off 1meter,2 meter and 5 meter with a tape measure. I try to make it either parallel to the optical plane. If you can do it outside, use sticks (you might have to explain to the family where the broomsticks went). If you are doing it inside - set it up at a slightly oblique angle and measure from the filmplane. Shoot everything at wide-open, a mid way stop (5,6-8) and at full stop down. For the 1 meter and the 2 meter shot, put three items down, one dead on 1 meter, one at 90cm and the third one at 110 cm (and the same for the 2meter setting,190/200/210 cm). I tend to use known objects, that old T-bird model (1:18) or old 100ft boxes from Kodak and an ACROS 100ft box as the "key" as it has heavy type on it and it makes it easy to see. Get a small pad with post it notes and "tag" each shot with f-stop and lens. Stick the Post-it's on the "key" box as a extra "focus=point" It is somewhat boring to do, but it will teach you which lens is best at what distance and f-stop. OK, you will promptly forget all of this when you go shooting. but at least you tried!
For "absolute" resolution you can do the "classified ad" test. Take you local paper and take the classified section, iron it (you explain it to the family!) and stick it up. Try to find a spot that has even light across the whole thing. Put the tripod and lens about 2.5-3 meters away (with the 50mm), closer with the 35 and check that it is at 90 degree angle to the page. Again shoot at least 3 shots (wide-open, mid range and fully stopped down).
There are theories that you shall be 100 times the focal length from the subject. I usually ensure that the double page fills the area covered by the framelines for that lens! These negs are best checked with a loup or in an enlarger. Remember the post it notes here too - one page looks pretty much like another one if you dont tag them.
The other school is that you should use the finest grain film possible. I dont agree - I use the film I will be shooting the most with. If it looks good with Tech Pan @8asa, doesn't mean it will look good with triX/XX pushed to 800 or above as grain/contrast will start to affect the image.
So the family will declare you legally insane, but look from the bright side - they wont expect any rational deciscions from you later either!
Tom
Freakscene
Obscure member
Yes, hypo clearing agent is mostly sodium sulfite. Hypo is mostly sodium thiosulfate. As David Vestal says "you don't call 'paint stripper' 'paint'".
Marty
Marty
cosmonot
uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝʞ
OK, I've got two rolls of 5222 that I tested from 640 ASA down to ~125. I just dug through the box of chemistry I cleaned out of a friend's darkroom along with my own stash and I've got the following developers to play with:
TMAX Developer
Microdol X
Xtol
D76
Rodinal
Alta Zonal-Pro
Anyone have any developer/dilution combo they'd like to see? My film stock is a little out of date (best I can tell about 7 or 8 years old, stored mostly at a constant, cool room temp) so it might not be representative of the fresh stuff y'all are working with.
I can also run it through my Jobo once I get the counter space to set it up... I'm wondering if the rotary agitation would help pull some extra contrast out of cine film or long expired stock?
TMAX Developer
Microdol X
Xtol
D76
Rodinal
Alta Zonal-Pro
Anyone have any developer/dilution combo they'd like to see? My film stock is a little out of date (best I can tell about 7 or 8 years old, stored mostly at a constant, cool room temp) so it might not be representative of the fresh stuff y'all are working with.
I can also run it through my Jobo once I get the counter space to set it up... I'm wondering if the rotary agitation would help pull some extra contrast out of cine film or long expired stock?
L
lkgroup
Guest
I use a Jobo for processing my XX film 250 ASA. I use the Adox developer listed earlier in the thread. You have to make it hand from individual chemicals. It is a D-76 type developer with less Sodium Sulphite in it. I develop at 7 min in this developer which is about 10% less time for the Jobo agitation vs doing the film by hand.
I don't know if the Jobo will pick up contrast but I do not see the negs as flat at all. I scan my negs so I can manipulate the contrast in Photoshop elements.
Leo
I don't know if the Jobo will pick up contrast but I do not see the negs as flat at all. I scan my negs so I can manipulate the contrast in Photoshop elements.
Leo
dpetrzelka
Well-known
cosmonot -
I would be most interested to see Xtol and either Tmax or Rodinal.
Since Tom has tried Rodinal, Tmax might be the one to go with - for the sake of covering all the bases.
I just shot a very un-scientific test roll of 5222 @ 400asa, and souped it in Xtol for 6min, 68degrees, with agitation for the first full minute, and then 4 sec /30sec after that. Its in the fixer right now.
I'll let you know if I get anything - I plan to do a more exhaustive test of 5222 in Xtol next week.
I would be most interested to see Xtol and either Tmax or Rodinal.
Since Tom has tried Rodinal, Tmax might be the one to go with - for the sake of covering all the bases.
I just shot a very un-scientific test roll of 5222 @ 400asa, and souped it in Xtol for 6min, 68degrees, with agitation for the first full minute, and then 4 sec /30sec after that. Its in the fixer right now.
I'll let you know if I get anything - I plan to do a more exhaustive test of 5222 in Xtol next week.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
That is the best line I've heard on RFF (or anywhere) for a long, long time!Tom A said:
Earl
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Claiming minor insanity is easy if you are Leica shooter!
I would like to see the XX done in Tmax developer (i am out of that) and also in Microdol X. I vaguely remember doing it decades ago and getting about asa 125 out of it, but very nice tones and grains.
I am finishing off another batch of 5 rolls today and will run that in PCK and add to the "pool" of developers.
I would like to see the XX done in Tmax developer (i am out of that) and also in Microdol X. I vaguely remember doing it decades ago and getting about asa 125 out of it, but very nice tones and grains.
I am finishing off another batch of 5 rolls today and will run that in PCK and add to the "pool" of developers.
erik
Established
Being a well known cheapskate I am a big fan of bulk loading film. I've been shooting Double XX for a couple three years now. I've tested it in pyro-cat HD, rodinal, pc-tea, D-76. I ended up liking D-76 best of that group. I found that when I am shooting this film I am often going for a "classic" look, and D-76 did the trick. Actually, however I am using Sprint film developer now, which is a liquid developer formulated to behave very much like D-76 (so much so that I can't really see a difference in the prints) and it is easier to deal with in terms of mixing etc.
http://www.sprintsystems.com for those who don't know it.
In Rodinal XX just looked too rough to me, I don't mind grain, but the tonality was rather poor. This film reminds me a lot of the tri-x I learned on in the 70's.
http://www.sprintsystems.com for those who don't know it.
In Rodinal XX just looked too rough to me, I don't mind grain, but the tonality was rather poor. This film reminds me a lot of the tri-x I learned on in the 70's.
