Fake black M3 on eBay. Beware!

Wauwatosa is spelled incorrectly. Additionally, the spelling for "Cattenach", is Cattanach, which there are in Wisconsin. Also has the name on the warranty is "Cattenbach".
 
I´ll play...

The invoice dated "1955" refers to "E. Leitz Inc 468 Park Avenue." As far as I learned from Wikipedia, "Park Ave" was "Fourth Ave" before 1959.

In a letter from 1957, E. Leitz Inc. was still residing in "Fourth Ave".

If the invoice is a "copy" as mentioned in post #38, why doesnt it say "copy" anywhere?

A.jpg


B.jpg


C.jpg


D.jpg


Regarding serial no. on the "Guarantee" document, see the comparison below.

001.jpg
 
I´ll play...

The invoice dated "1955" refers to "E. Leitz Inc 468 Park Avenue." As far as I learned from Wikipedia, "Park Ave" was "Fourth Ave" before 1959.

In a letter from 1957, E. Leitz Inc. was still residing in "Fourth Ave".

If the invoice is a "copy" as mentioned in post #38, why doesnt it say "copy" anywhere?

The copy I got for the purchase my Granddad's Leica IIIa does not say copy anywhere but I know it is a genuine copy..

Copies are not required to say so..

As for the auction I have no way of knowing if it is fake or not so I am in no way defending it. I do know though Leitz would allow for customer customizations to production cameras.

When I was in the Navy back in the 70's one of our PH's ordered a M4 with the serial number engraved with his ssn...
 
Wauwatosa is spelled incorrectly.

Just looked it up on google and it is in fact spelled correctly.. Your spelling "Wauwatosa" is incorrect.. You left out the "a" between "u" and "w"..

Additionally, the spelling for "Cattenach", is Cattanach, which there are in Wisconsin. Also has the name on the warranty is "Cattenbach".

People change the spelling of first, middle, and last names so this arguement doesn't hold water..
 
Just looked it up on google and it is in fact spelled correctly.. Your spelling "Wauwatosa" is incorrect.. You left out the "a" between "u" and "w"..
People change the spelling of first, middle, and last names so this arguement doesn't hold water..

This is no "a" between the "u" and the "w". I don't know what "google" you're using Colyn, but if you Google "Wauawatosa", Wauwatosa comes up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wauwatosa,_Wisconsin

"Wauwatosa, Wisconsin"

"Wauwatosa is a city in Milwaukee County, Wisconsin, United States. The population was 46,396 at the 2010 census. Wauwatosa is located immediately west of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and is a part of the Milwaukee metropolitan area. It is named after the Potawatomi word for firefly"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Wisconsin

"Arguement" is - argument. So your spelling doesn't hold water.

😉
 
Back in 1974 I sent a early chrome M3 back to the factory to have it made in black. I just wanted a black body I was not a collector (1) and had no idea that they were rare. It came back in four weeks sealed in a plastic bag just like a new camera and looked that way. The next year I had my chrome M3 overhauled and redone, I still have the chrome one and it looks great. So it could have been done after the fact, anything was possible then and the only difference if it went thru the repair dept. was the L seal was different. I forgot which way was which but one was raised and one sunken. Let's be honest any Leica with a intact factory L seal is way overdue for a complete overhaul. Back then it cost about 300.00 dollars to have it done, and the camera had a new rangefinder installed, shutter, top and bottom plates you could not tell it from a new camera.
wbill
 
So, after the observation about the Zip code in this thread, I simply posted a question to the seller.

Pointing out that the documentation seemed to be showing a Zip code in 1955, when Zip codes only existed from 1963, on.

My response from the seller:

"My God your right. Thank You so much for pointing this out. I acquired this item at an estate sale. Before I purchased the camera I checked to see if this company called Leica ever made cameras in black during that time and I found that they did. So I proceeded with the purchase. I checked your information and you are 100% correct. I am going to contact the estate sales lady in the morning. I guess I will also remove the auction. This is terrible news for me. I wonder if there is any way that this could still be authentic? Any more information you have would be appreciated greatly. Thank you so much for pointing this out. I have a lot of work to do to cancel this auction. Im going to start now. Thanks again and please let me know if you have anymore info regarding this camera. Regards"


If the level of knowledge this person has about Leicas is accurate, someone make an offer to her/him off EBAY. Wasn't expecting this response. If the camera is real, maybe they will go for a bit higher price.
 
This is the courteous seller's answear about my question on changing accounts on Ebay:

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]I have always had a business partner in this estate sale business. He and I aren't working together anymore. So He had the main rights to the account. So I started my own account recently. It wont take me long to get it "established" . Thanks for your interest. Kind Regards[/FONT]
 
Back in 1974 I sent a early chrome M3 back to the factory to have it made in black. I just wanted a black body I was not a collector (1) and had no idea that they were rare. It came back in four weeks sealed in a plastic bag just like a new camera and looked that way. The next year I had my chrome M3 overhauled and redone, I still have the chrome one and it looks great. So it could have been done after the fact, anything was possible then and the only difference if it went thru the repair dept. was the L seal was different. I forgot which way was which but one was raised and one sunken. Let's be honest any Leica with a intact factory L seal is way overdue for a complete overhaul. Back then it cost about 300.00 dollars to have it done, and the camera had a new rangefinder installed, shutter, top and bottom plates you could not tell it from a new camera.
wbill

Thats the most interesting info on this thread w/ regards to future reference, IMHO.



Story:
A while ago I had a chrome M3 on which I myself meticulously replaced all the parts with original BP spare parts. When I started out compiling original spare parts in BP I could find stuff like the transport lever and shutter speed and rewind fairly easy (on eBay, from a US-based seller named Tonaya, shop name leicaparts) and although they were pricy, they all looked unused and legit w/ regards to paint gloss and quality.
In the end I went for a completely black camera after securing a mint, paper wrapped BP M3 top (no serial engraved!) from a seller in Hamburg. Cost me EUR 280 but I was already in so I went for it.

Finally when I wanted to sell the camera here on RFF (for no more than my total investment, original chrome parts included), there were no takers despite the extensive provenance and invoices of all BP parts. It looked way better than this one (no wear) and all invoices clearly showed what it was, but not even got a single inquiry.

I sold the camera and all BP parts separately on eBay, at a use loss. No sir, I'm not touching BP Leica's with a 10ft pole, money sink holes they are!
 
And ZIP codes don't always match Postal Districts. I was St. Louis 10, MO which is now 63139. A more interesting line of research would be to identify the original owner. If it were mine, I would send it to Stan Tamarkin for authentication and then sale at his auction.
 
I'm close to north jersey and an estate sale junkie and I've seen some crazy estate stuff that I didnt get to buy (gold RTS, nikon 13mm converted to leica mount, konica instant press, ) and some that i did (zeiss hologon, rare earth summicron). The estate sale/camera scene here is ultra competitive and people camp out in there cars sometimes overnight. Anyway, I have no idea who this guy is but there was an leica for sale last week but i was out town and missed it. The listing had some photos but I couldn't find the leica which usually means its a panasonic digital point and shoot with a leica branded lens but i also wasn't looking for a black m3. I can probably find the listing if you guys are interested.
 
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