Fallen back in love with the M8

[jsrockit]

On the hunt for the C-Biogon 35 LOL

M8 + ZM 25 Biogon

Nice! ... ...

 

[Steve M.]

It's not unexpected. At first, I thought it was odd. But an old digital camera that might be considered obsolete takes better photos than the new cameras. There's something really enjoyable about that. The M8 is unique.

 

[peterm1]

I once read a book on relationships called "Too Good to Leave, too Bad to Stay"

That's the M8 🙂

I have been using mine a bit more lately because I do like the image output when I nail it. I recall thinking when I first got it that when I did my job and got it right, the images were good enough to not require post processing other than perhaps a touch of sharpening. For me that is a rarity.

But having said that it most definitely is hard to get it right - the viewfinder is not as good as the M3 for example (though then again, what is) making it harder to focus. It compounds this by reducing the effective baseline length - a by product of M camera viewfinders that have less magnification. For someone who enjoys shooting with slightly longer lens this is a serious deficit as it means nailing focus is a crapshoot.

And the camera's sensor is seriously limited in terms of sensitivity and dynamic range. (I am not just referring to comparison with sensors in the latest cameras today, it was behind the curve when it was released even by comparison with other CCD sensors of that time.)

All of which adds up to a camera that I love - but one which I also love to hate.

BTW am I imagining it? I recently tried a M240 and thought that it had a somewhat better viewfinder than the M8. Somehow it seemed brighter and easier to find focus. Other than this it apparently still has the same low magnification as the M8 (0.68 of the image I think is the figure.) so I am not sure if this was wishful thinking on my part. Any thoughts?

Having said all of that - ah, those images, those images! Here are a few samples:

Through a glass darkly 3 by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Pensive on the bus by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Brisbane - dawn by the river by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

A little piece of Asia in Adelaide by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

 

[taffy]

It's not unexpected. At first, I thought it was odd. But an old digital camera that might be considered obsolete takes better photos than the new cameras. There's something really enjoyable about that. The M8 is unique.

Very enjoyable (as long as you’re not the guy with the new camera)!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[taffy]

I once read a book on relationships called "Too Good to Leave, too Bad to Stay"

That's the M8 🙂

I have been using mine a bit more lately because I do like the image output when I nail it. I recall thinking when I first got it that when I did my job and got it right, the images were good enough to not require post processing other than perhaps a touch of sharpening. For me that is a rarity.

But having said that it most definitely is hard to get it right - the viewfinder is not as good as the M3 for example (though then again, what is) making it harder to focus. It compounds this by reducing the effective baseline length - a by product of M camera viewfinders that have less magnification. For someone who enjoys shooting with slightly longer lens this is a serious deficit as it means nailing focus is a crapshoot.

And the camera's sensor is seriously limited in terms of sensitivity and dynamic range. (I am not just referring to comparison with sensors in the latest cameras today, it was behind the curve when it was released even by comparison with other CCD sensors of that time.)

All of which adds up to a camera that I love - but one which I also love to hate.

BTW am I imagining it? I recently tried a M240 and thought that it had a somewhat better viewfinder than the M8. Somehow it seemed brighter and easier to find focus. Other than this it apparently still has the same low magnification as the M8 (0.68 of the image I think is the figure.) so I am not sure if this was wishful thinking on my part. Any thoughts?

Having said all of that - ah, those images, those images! Here are a few samples:

Through a glass darkly 3 by Life in Shadows, on Flickr
Pensive on the bus by Life in Shadows, on Flickr
Brisbane - dawn by the river by Life in Shadows, on Flickr
A little piece of Asia in Adelaide by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Those images indeed!


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[ChrisC]

Taffy – First;

.... between “.... tools?”. ..... I’..... I’m........ that’s .......

I am utterly bewildered by the above and have no idea of the meaning of these hieroglyphs. Please help.

On the matter of the Zeiss 35mm f2.8 C–Biogon; it is a stellar lens on the M8 and M10. It is improved by this wonderful 3D printed lens hood by Bo Lorentzen :

https://www.shapeways.com/product/GRQAPSDQB/voigtlander-nokton-35mm-1-4-lens-hood-v5

I'm on my second [now improved] version, my first saved my lens by acting as a crash crumple zone when a gust of wind blew my camera and trpod over, the first hood was totalled but my lens and camera were saved.

Whilst I do not 'Love' my M8, I'm more forgiving of it's faults than I was, and am more bugged by an M10 stupidity which drives me crazy every time I use it! Whisper this gently, but maybe Leica got it right with a very thin M8 sensor cover glass and requirement to filter UV/IR at the lens front. [BTW I use UV/IR filters with my M10 too]. As many repeat; the M8 files are very nice when using the camera in good light. I've re-covered mine with coloured leather from Aki Asahi and given it a new lease of life :

http://aki-asahi.com/store/

Enjoy your Zeiss and M8, the '35'mm framelines in the M8 gives the most uncluttered of all the viewfinder framings, and the lens delivers fabulous files with the M8.

............. Chris

 

[jordan.dickinson]

The hieroglyphs are just a coding issue with using quotation marks, apostrophes and other special characters. I've noticed similar issues when I've posted in the classifieds.

 

[peterm1]

In line with my post below about the M8's color rendition here are a few more made recently. I have indeed, if not totally and completely fallen back in love with my M8, at least ended our trial separation and are living together till the children leave school. (A little love and marriage joke there.......).

On a less frivolous note, I have most certainly renewed my love of its color output and pleasant tonal qualities although, as I always confess, the examples below have been "tweaked" in post to my liking in order to maximize the color's advantage. And also have seriously begun experimenting with its black and white output given how many people rave about it. And it's really quite good though I think I do prefer to shoot in RAW and convert in post, given the better dynamic range this provides. Of course I can still do this if needed as I am saving images in camera as JPG and RAW. So I do see in my future, much more use of the M8 once more. My past frustration with it has largely been about my ability to focus with its 0.68x viewfinder which it comparatively pokey and a little like looking through a keyhole - even with a magnifier. I have also been practicing that skill with my painfully aged eyes, in an effort to improve my hit rate.

The Look That Says it All by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Cityscape Reflected by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Barber Poles by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Through a Bus Window by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Back of House by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Street Performer by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Yellow Chairs, Blue Hat by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

And here is an example of its black and white (if I recall correctly was made in camera with the JPG though again tweaked in post)

One Day at the Markets by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Feeling like adding another digital Leica again for well bellow 2K$.
I was checking X 113, very disappointing IQ and breaking battery door.
I was looking at Leica current two Lux compacts, they both have only pana raw files, which my LR has no support. One of them with super zoom has next to mobile phones IQ and another is just to much of Panasonic.
M8 still has no alternatives as not so very expensive Leica with really sharp images.

 

[taffy]

Taffy – First;



I am utterly bewildered by the above and have no idea of the meaning of these hieroglyphs. Please help.

On the matter of the Zeiss 35mm f2.8 C–Biogon; it is a stellar lens on the M8 and M10. It is improved by this wonderful 3D printed lens hood by Bo Lorentzen :

https://www.shapeways.com/product/GRQAPSDQB/voigtlander-nokton-35mm-1-4-lens-hood-v5

I'm on my second [now improved] version, my first saved my lens by acting as a crash crumple zone when a gust of wind blew my camera and trpod over, the first hood was totalled but my lens and camera were saved.

Whilst I do not 'Love' my M8, I'm more forgiving of it's faults than I was, and am more bugged by an M10 stupidity which drives me crazy every time I use it! Whisper this gently, but maybe Leica got it right with a very thin M8 sensor cover glass and requirement to filter UV/IR at the lens front. [BTW I use UV/IR filters with my M10 too]. As many repeat; the M8 files are very nice when using the camera in good light. I've re-covered mine with coloured leather from Aki Asahi and given it a new lease of life :

http://aki-asahi.com/store/

Enjoy your Zeiss and M8, the '35'mm framelines in the M8 gives the most uncluttered of all the viewfinder framings, and the lens delivers fabulous files with the M8.

............. Chris

Hi Chris

Thanks for the lens hood tip. I was considering getting the Haoge brand which is pretty much the same as the Voigtlander LH-6 or Zeiss equivalent but this is something new to consider. If it fits and locks perfectly and withstands reasonable repetitive of mounting it on an off, I am m getting one. I currently use screw on kinds which often unscrews the UVIR filter. I have 3 lenses that can make use of this - the c-Biogon, the 50 planar, and the 35 1.4 Nokton - so the cost it will be worth it.

I don’t have an M10 so I guess I can say “I love my M8” especially since I don’t shoot it at all in low / bad light 🙂 never felt so lucky LOL!

Been contemplating those skins. So far the original covering on mine is holding up pretty well.


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[taffy]

In line with my post below about the M8's color rendition here are a few more made recently. I have indeed, if not totally and completely fallen back in love with my M8, at least ended our trial separation and are living together till the children leave school. (A little love and marriage joke there.......).

On a less frivolous note, I have most certainly renewed my love of its color output and pleasant tonal qualities although, as I always confess, the examples below have been "tweaked" in post to my liking in order to maximize the color's advantage. And also have seriously begun experimenting with its black and white output given how many people rave about it. And it's really quite good though I think I do prefer to shoot in RAW and convert in post, given the better dynamic range this provides. Of course I can still do this if needed as I am saving images in camera as JPG and RAW. So I do see in my future, much more use of the M8 once more. My past frustration with it has largely been about my ability to focus with its 0.68x viewfinder which it comparatively pokey and a little like looking through a keyhole - even with a magnifier. I have also been practicing that skill with my painfully aged eyes, in an effort to improve my hit rate.

The Look That Says it All by Life in Shadows, on Flickr
Cityscape Reflected by Life in Shadows, on Flickr
Barber Poles by Life in Shadows, on Flickr
Through a Bus Window by Life in Shadows, on Flickr
Back of House by Life in Shadows, on Flickr
Street Performer by Life in Shadows, on Flickr
Yellow Chairs, Blue Hat by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

And here is an example of its black and white (if I recall correctly was made in camera with the JPG though again tweaked in post)
One Day at the Markets by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Very nice photos! I shoot in B&W JPEG + RAW to see what the photo looks like in BW and if the need arises I can convert the RAW to B&W. Most of the time I'm pretty happy with the BW JPEGs and make small curve adjustments from there.


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[Rayt]

You like the look of underexposed print film. How do you attribute this to the M8? Can’t any camera provide files for you to play with in post?

 

[peterm1]

You like the look of underexposed print film. How do you attribute this to the M8? Can’t any camera provide files for you to play with in post?

I had anticipated someone asking this and it's a fair question. The answer is yes to a point - any camera's files can be used.

I tend to divide post processing into 2 fundamental parts. The first part is getting the basic images right. I could, in principle, leave the images there with no further changes but I enjoy going further. The second part is adding any effects etc I want to add. The thing I find with M8 files is that in general there is usually much less work to be done with them as they are already maybe 80% there - the colors already look good and so can the tones mostly - depending on shooting conditions So it is then just a matter of adding any effects I want. But that's just me.

Most cameras seem to put out files that need more effort to get them looking good just in terms of the basics.

 

[Rayt]

The thing I find with M8 files is that in general there is usually much less work to be done with them as they are already maybe 80% there - the colors already look good and so can the tones mostly

I am shooting with an M8.2 and also notice how nice the files are. I am not a serious digital shooter so the M8.2 is enough for me and I like it for the RF experience. I shot this photo last week in Yokohama Japan. I had a light yellow filter on the lens and liked how it has a "Matrix" look.



L9997778 by ray tai, on Flickr

 

[peterm1]

L9997778 by ray tai, on Flickr

Yes nice. Somehow I like shots taken through public transport windows. I think the reason is that it adds a cinematic quality to the shot. And it raises ambiguous questions - people on buses and trains always seem to look tired and alone even when in a crowd.

 

[Rob-F]

Sometimes I miss my M8.2. It's partly because I like its bright-line frames, sized for two meters--my M9 frames are sized for one meter. So the M8.2 gave images closer to what I saw in the finder. But when viewing my old images from the M8.2, they do seem to have punchier color, at least in some shots. Is the sensor really better? Or maybe just the signal processing of the RAW file is what makes it punchier.

But not being able to enter the ID of the lens in use was a real bother! And the crop factor can be annoying at times.

 

[ChrisC]

.... Is the sensor {M8} really better? Or maybe just the signal processing of the RAW file is what makes it punchier {than M9}

Rob – I've always understood that the sensors are essentially the same except for the M9's being larger. A difference is in the thickness of the sensor cover glass which is thicker on the M9 and therefore delivers greater UV/IR absorption. The argument that the M8 delivers crisper files [than M9] is usually attributed to it's thin sensor cover glass. In retrospect, I think far too much was made of having to use on-lens UV/IR filters; but at the time of the M8 launch Leica got a lot of flak for releasing a camera that was as IR sensitive as it is, and needed to answer those criticisms with more effective IR absorption in the M9.

........... Chris

 

[raid]

The M8 with Ultron 50/2

Nokton (P) 50/1.5 with M8

M8 with 75mm Summilux

Pensacola Beach, Florida.



Zeiss Hologon 16/8 [Oslo]

Summicron 35/2 V1

Rigid Summicron and M8

Schneider Xenon 50/2.8 with M8

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Not the same. I had them at the same time and it was the difference. M8 rendering feels more archaic. Just slightly.

"The Leica M8 is the first digital camera in the rangefinder M series introduced by Leica Camera AG on 14 September 2006. It uses an APS-H 10.3-megapixel Kodak KAF-10500 CCD image sensor."

https://www.adorama.com/alc/0011872/blogarticle/Kodak-statement-about-Leica-M9-sensor

The KODAK KAF-18500 Image Sensor was developed specifically for the newly announced LEICA M9, the latest member in Leica’s legendary M-series of cameras. Enabling a new generation of features and capabilities for this Rangefinder camera, the Kodak sensor provides full-frame image capture, increased resolution, and improved image quality compared to the image sensor used in the previous generation LEICA M8 camera.

https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/KAF-18500-D.PDF
http://camera.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/kodak/kaf10500.html?p=1

 

[taffy]

Thank you for this set you posted above, Raid.

I love each of the photos especially the pink light falling on your daughter. Magical. That's not the kind of light I get here in SE Asia and I always look forward to traveling to places where the light quality is similar to this.

Very late to the game, the M8 has been a joy to use and I'm learning a lot through it. I'm getting to know its quirks beyond just poor high ISO performance (like the hard-to-see 24/25mm frame lines). With all it's limitations I don't feel that limited using it and I find myself shooting at ISO 160, 90% of the time ( I have learned to forgive camera shake more these days). I keep my Auto ISO to a 320 limit. Not a big deal and sometimes it'll underexpose so I try to meter properly.

This camera is actually teaching me lessons in photography that somehow get lost in the churn of going for new gear. It has taught me much about camera + lens pairings (+ how the light shines in your part of the world) affects the image signature and taught me what I like in my images. I'm also more patient now with the result of my gear, seeking to learn more about my lenses rather than lusting for the next thing.

I hope this camera stays a while longer and doesn't conk out because it is really find and I'm enjoying the process of learning it. Something has to be said about the limited functions that aid in the process of learning - not too much to fiddle around with and get lost in.

I love the M8's BW output but paired with the CV Nokton 35 1.4 SC just has me smitten. The classic look is something I truly enjoy. While modern-look lenses are great, there's something about these modern classics. No wonder so many love this lens. Both at ISO 160.

This one is with the modern ZM Biogon 25. It is contrasty, sharp and has the 3D effect I've grown to love. The M8's film-y color isn't always what i'd like but I suppose I'm miss it more if one day it were gone.

Sometimes when the light is strong outside but comes in through a window, I get really pleasing images. This one below is with the CV 35 again and this time at ISO 640 (it gets noisy but not so bad in this case IMO).

Same conditions as the one above but I absolutely love the subtle color here. This is with the ZM Planar 50 - a very nice lens in it's own right.

All in all, I've never enjoyed my gear so much. Cheers.