grapejohnson
Well-known
i know most rffers probably aren't very interested in fashion photography, but recently i've been getting really into fashion in general and have been impressed by the photography in magazines such as RUSSH and i-D (it's way better than most magazines, sometimes at least) and i feel like my style would work really well for fashion.
unfortunately, i have absolutely no connections to the fashion world, so i don't know where to even think about beginning to start. i only shoot people and i have been building up a portfolio, but does anyone know how/where i could go about contacting agencies to show them my stuff? is flickr too amateurish? should i try some other site?
does/has anyone on here ever done any fashion shoots before who could give me any advice?
unfortunately, i have absolutely no connections to the fashion world, so i don't know where to even think about beginning to start. i only shoot people and i have been building up a portfolio, but does anyone know how/where i could go about contacting agencies to show them my stuff? is flickr too amateurish? should i try some other site?
does/has anyone on here ever done any fashion shoots before who could give me any advice?
E.M
Well-known
Hey , I also love fashion photography and look a lot into magazines , especially Vogue and Elle and such . I think the best you can do is to start working as an assistant to a very good fashion photographer and learn the trade with your eyes , it 's a lot more than only photography , the way you deal with clients for one . . Then after a while develop your own style .
Wish you luck !
Wish you luck !
John Lawrence
Well-known
Don't know if you've seen this site, but it had (the last time I checked!) some very useful information about fashion photography, how to get into it, networking etc.
http://fashionphotographyblog.com/
In addition, the photographer responsible (used to?) still does? comment on pictures submitted by readers, and I believe offers some of them the chance to work as her assistant.
Hope this is of some help.
John
http://fashionphotographyblog.com/
In addition, the photographer responsible (used to?) still does? comment on pictures submitted by readers, and I believe offers some of them the chance to work as her assistant.
Hope this is of some help.
John
grapejohnson
Well-known
i understand about the location, i'm only here while i'm going to school and i'll need to live in a pretty big city anyway to get work.
seems like one of the classic catch-22s where you can't get experience if you don't have any yet. editorial work is what i'd want to do, honestly.
seems like one of the classic catch-22s where you can't get experience if you don't have any yet. editorial work is what i'd want to do, honestly.
clayne
shoot film or die
Sounds like you should be targeting intern work.
Jamie123
Veteran
Ok, so let's start from the beginning. You say you want to do fashion photography. That's pretty easy and you can start doing it tomorrow. But more on that later.
The second question is do you want to be a fashion photographer (preferably with some success)? How to achieve that is a bit harder and opinions may vary. Assisting was mentioned but keep in mind that this doesn't have anything particular to do with fashion photography. It's one way to gain experience, pick up some skills, see how it's done and meet people. That may or may not lead to success down the way but only if you also do solid work and even then there are no guarantees. There are quite a few photographers working for magazines like i-D or Dazed and Confused who have never assisted a day in their lives so I wouldn't say it's a must. If you're into complicated sets and lighting set ups it surely helps to learn how it's done first before you invest money to do your own shoots, though.
But now back to the first question, i.e. how to actually do fashion photography. I recomment at least these. A model, a stylist and ideally also a make-up artist/groomer. Models are easy to get. Just contact model agencies and ask them if they have any models who need pictures. They usually have lots.
Stylists and Make-up Artists are a bit harder to come by. You'll basically have to find budding stylists or MUAs who are willing to work for free in order to build their portfolio. Your best bet is to ask around. Here it helps to know people which is certainly one reason why assisting can be useful.
The one thing to keep in mind, though, is that fashion photography is a team sport and the better the model, the stylist and MUA, the better the photos will be. And you'll be more likely to run into talented people in cities like New York, London, etc. etc. since they're all there trying to make it.
One more thing. You said it's a catch-22 because you can't get any experience before you have any. That's not quite true. You can teach yourself a lot of the basic technical skills like working with Lightroom or CaptureOne, how to set up a Softbox, etc. etc. And you also don't have to start out assisting some high end fashion photographer right away. You can start out by assisting some editorial photographer on simple portrait shoots where your basic task is carrying stuff and then slowly build from there. Photographers will sometimes take a chance on a new assistant especially if the risk isn't too big (i.e. the job isn't too important or too elaborate). A photographer I once talked to said he gets lots of emails from students who want to assist him and he actually cares more about personality than technical skills. Anyone can set up a C-Stand but if he has to be in the car for three hours driving to a location he wants someone he can talk to. Other photographers might have a different view, of course.
The second question is do you want to be a fashion photographer (preferably with some success)? How to achieve that is a bit harder and opinions may vary. Assisting was mentioned but keep in mind that this doesn't have anything particular to do with fashion photography. It's one way to gain experience, pick up some skills, see how it's done and meet people. That may or may not lead to success down the way but only if you also do solid work and even then there are no guarantees. There are quite a few photographers working for magazines like i-D or Dazed and Confused who have never assisted a day in their lives so I wouldn't say it's a must. If you're into complicated sets and lighting set ups it surely helps to learn how it's done first before you invest money to do your own shoots, though.
But now back to the first question, i.e. how to actually do fashion photography. I recomment at least these. A model, a stylist and ideally also a make-up artist/groomer. Models are easy to get. Just contact model agencies and ask them if they have any models who need pictures. They usually have lots.
Stylists and Make-up Artists are a bit harder to come by. You'll basically have to find budding stylists or MUAs who are willing to work for free in order to build their portfolio. Your best bet is to ask around. Here it helps to know people which is certainly one reason why assisting can be useful.
The one thing to keep in mind, though, is that fashion photography is a team sport and the better the model, the stylist and MUA, the better the photos will be. And you'll be more likely to run into talented people in cities like New York, London, etc. etc. since they're all there trying to make it.
One more thing. You said it's a catch-22 because you can't get any experience before you have any. That's not quite true. You can teach yourself a lot of the basic technical skills like working with Lightroom or CaptureOne, how to set up a Softbox, etc. etc. And you also don't have to start out assisting some high end fashion photographer right away. You can start out by assisting some editorial photographer on simple portrait shoots where your basic task is carrying stuff and then slowly build from there. Photographers will sometimes take a chance on a new assistant especially if the risk isn't too big (i.e. the job isn't too important or too elaborate). A photographer I once talked to said he gets lots of emails from students who want to assist him and he actually cares more about personality than technical skills. Anyone can set up a C-Stand but if he has to be in the car for three hours driving to a location he wants someone he can talk to. Other photographers might have a different view, of course.
CK Dexter Haven
Well-known
This might end up being a long response, but, here goes....
I tried to shoot fashion in NYC, in the 90s. In the 90s. Pre-digital. So, a lot of my trials and tribulations are no longer relevant. Needless to say, it is soooo much easier to get good results now than it was then. But, now, there are many more photographers getting 'good results.' The other matter is that, back then, the work was far more individualistic because film and the related processes had much more character. You could easily identify an image and match it to a photographer. Everyone shot either a Pentax 67 or a Mamiya RZ, but everyone's images looked like they belonged to that photographer.
So, how do you get started.... My first shoot was in Ohio. I visited a small agency and showed the owner a couple of completely irrelevant images, and asked if i could test with their girls. Residing in a small market, at that time, made this process pretty easy, and i got access to a couple of really beautiful girls. They weren't NYC-model level, though. But, it gave me one day's worth of experience, and that was a start.
Later, i moved to NYC after college. I had a few pictures then, and went to a lower-tier NYC agency. Every agency has what they usually call "New Faces," which are the girls they've just signed, and who typically don't have any/many pictures in their own portfolios. If you can show a booker something promising, and you don't seem too sketchy, you can probably get to 'test' with some decent girls. It's called 'testing' or TFP (trade for prints), which means you're responsible for all costs, and provide the model with either a disc with an agreed upon number of processed/finished images, and/or a couple of prints.
Be sure to agree on the number of retouched, ready-to-print images you will provide. Also, be sure to make it clear that you will not be giving the model all the files. You don't want to provide any images that don't meet your standard.
So, anyway, i set up go-sees where a bunch of girls would come to my office, which was a design studio, and i'd Polaroid them, speak to them for a few minutes, and look through their books. I'd make notes and figure out which would work for the kinds of images i planned to make. It certainly helps to have plans in advance, so you can see the girls in a particular context, rather than just collecting Polaroids and memories, and then trying to fit them into something by recall.
At the time, i was doing all the styling (clothes), and i found a makeup artist somehow... probably through AOL(!). I did the styling myself because i had a very keen eye for fashion, having 'studied' Vogue/Bazaar for years, and i didn't trust the taste of anyone else i knew. This was both good and bad. I had that control, but it is quite a lot of work to acquire the wardrobe. Actually, what i did was just go shopping.... I'd charge clothes, masking tape the tags inside the sleeves or collars, and then return them to the stores afterward.... That worked, in every instance, but you have to be careful with everything. You especially have to be careful with shoes, as you can't return them if they've been worn. I did most of my shooting indoors/in my apartment studio, so i could tape the bottoms. I would recommend finding someone to do styling for you unless you really know fashion and want that challenge and those responsibilities.
So, we'd do the shoots. I usually took on too much, and planned to get too many different looks and tried too many different lighting setups during each day. But, that was, again, with film, when you had to wait 90 seconds for a single Pola to develop, and film was expensive, and the cameras were medium format (slow-ish).... We'd typically shoot for 8-ish hours, and i'd have two models at a time, alternating between them. You'll have to experiment to find out if that's a good way for you to work. I think i did it that way to get the maximum number of different types of images during a shoot, and to be able to work with one girl while the other was being made up and/or swapping outfits.
So, after the shoot, i'd send out the film for Clip Tests, get it back, make adjustments (a third of a stop!) and then process the rest. I'd then go over contacts, scan, retouch, and then take prints to the agent/booker. I almost never saw the models again, unless their was some sort of friendship. Usually, you would expect to be dealing with the bookers. Actually, i think i took contacts to the bookers first, and asked which they wanted printed.... I may have taken a couple of retouched prints with me, though, to show 'what could be,' because the film was just a raw starting point....
The bookers chose a few prints, and that was that. If you do well, they give you more girls. If you do really well, they give you more experienced girls, who might just not be as busy as they might want to be. The agents need to keep the girls occupied, and at least feeling like they're doing work, even if it's not for pay. And, just like you, they get better and more relaxed with each shoot.
So, that's how you start. After you've done a few shoots, you should start thinking about a website. Choose a couple of WORKING, high-end, magazine photographers, and design your site the same way as theirs. It will probably be on the 'minimalistic' side. That's what plays in the market. If you diverge from that, you'd better have a very talented designer working on it, and unless you're a graphic designer, odds are you won't really recognize a good designer....
So, once you've done some shoots, you're going to need to network and promote yourself to get some real work. I would start with small magazines and websites. To be honest, things have changed in the last ten years.... Back in 'my day,' the thing you needed was 'the tear sheet.' An actual magazine page, inserted into your physical portfolio. I have no idea what the industry is like now, now that magazines aren't as important and web media is so important. Still, though, tear sheets are probably the currency.
Work on that stuff and get some real work before you seek representation. Define your look. Don't try to shoot every kind of aesthetic. Try to develop a signature. Be kind to everyone you meet. Be respectful of the girls. Be professional.
The alternate route is to Assist. Unless you have connections, it may be quite difficult to find an assisting job without experience and/or proof that you know what you're doing. In the digital age, it may be easier. Back then, you needed to demonstrate proficiency in loading (fast!) the various medium format cameras. Probably should know how to use Profoto packs, and maybe HMI/high-end LED lighting.... Or, you might start as a digital tech, where you're in charge of copying cards to redundant hard drives, and possibly running Aperture or a RAW converter on a workstation.
Some things most people don't think about when they think about shooting fashion:
• On a real shoot, you have to lead a team. Hair stylist, MUA, clothing stylist, the model/s, assistants. And, if it's for a paying job, there is likely to be an Art Director and/or Editor, and possibly other folks involved on the client side. It's not nearly as autonomous as you might like. Take advantage of the 'testing' phase to do what you want.
• When i got into it, it was half out of a love of fashion photography and half out of love of women. But, i was out of college, in my mid-twenties, and the girls you get as "New Faces" are soooo young. 14-17. So, they were really rather 'moot,' in a way....
• Model agents/bookers are not fun to deal with. Actually, all of the people at the lower end of fashion are unpleasant to deal with. They're likely to be 'club kids,' and the like. They're flaky, outrageous, excitable.... You have to deal with 'personalities.' And the feedback you get from them may be completely ridiculous and uninformed. They may not really have a clue about photography or photographic history, or even about fashion. They may be in the business for altogether frivolous reasons. This is partially why i abandoned my hopes. I figured out that, although i love(d) fashion photography, i didn't like the fashion business or most of the people who choose to work in that business. The magazines are glitzy, but the process of getting to the pages is not. Unless you like that sort of thing.... You'll need to experience it to find out.
Also, after i stopped shooting, sites like ModelMayhem and OneModelPlace came into being. These may be worthwhile alternatives to going to small agencies to get girls for testing at the outset. These also work in small markets. If you're not in LA, NYC, Miami, i would definitely go to these sites to get my first 5-10 girls for shoots. You will, though, have to be very strong in your personal direction and styling, because these girls are not as 'industry-polished' as girls you will encounter at agencies, where bookers have prepared them for how things work. You will also find a great number of arrogant girls who really have no chance of being 'real' fashion models, but will still insist on payment and/or other unprofessional issues, like bringing 'chaperones' to shoots.... You just have to weed through.
Also....
"editorial work is what i'd want to do, honestly."
That sounds good. Editorial work is where the best work is done. BUT, be aware that editorial pays peanuts. Seriously. You can't make a living shooting editorial. Unless you become a major contract shooter. A guy like Meisel used to get a million a year to shoot editorial pages (90s money). Because he was the best shooter in the world, and Vogue benefited from having him attached. But, editorial pages don't pay much at all. A few hundred per page, probably. Models don't even make much for magazine editorial pages. Even for a cover. Editorial, though, is the gateway to advertising money, which is the real money. Editorial is the single best way to promote yourself and to develop a cohesive style/signature but it is not The Objective as far as 'career' and finances are concerned.
I tried to shoot fashion in NYC, in the 90s. In the 90s. Pre-digital. So, a lot of my trials and tribulations are no longer relevant. Needless to say, it is soooo much easier to get good results now than it was then. But, now, there are many more photographers getting 'good results.' The other matter is that, back then, the work was far more individualistic because film and the related processes had much more character. You could easily identify an image and match it to a photographer. Everyone shot either a Pentax 67 or a Mamiya RZ, but everyone's images looked like they belonged to that photographer.
So, how do you get started.... My first shoot was in Ohio. I visited a small agency and showed the owner a couple of completely irrelevant images, and asked if i could test with their girls. Residing in a small market, at that time, made this process pretty easy, and i got access to a couple of really beautiful girls. They weren't NYC-model level, though. But, it gave me one day's worth of experience, and that was a start.
Later, i moved to NYC after college. I had a few pictures then, and went to a lower-tier NYC agency. Every agency has what they usually call "New Faces," which are the girls they've just signed, and who typically don't have any/many pictures in their own portfolios. If you can show a booker something promising, and you don't seem too sketchy, you can probably get to 'test' with some decent girls. It's called 'testing' or TFP (trade for prints), which means you're responsible for all costs, and provide the model with either a disc with an agreed upon number of processed/finished images, and/or a couple of prints.
Be sure to agree on the number of retouched, ready-to-print images you will provide. Also, be sure to make it clear that you will not be giving the model all the files. You don't want to provide any images that don't meet your standard.
So, anyway, i set up go-sees where a bunch of girls would come to my office, which was a design studio, and i'd Polaroid them, speak to them for a few minutes, and look through their books. I'd make notes and figure out which would work for the kinds of images i planned to make. It certainly helps to have plans in advance, so you can see the girls in a particular context, rather than just collecting Polaroids and memories, and then trying to fit them into something by recall.
At the time, i was doing all the styling (clothes), and i found a makeup artist somehow... probably through AOL(!). I did the styling myself because i had a very keen eye for fashion, having 'studied' Vogue/Bazaar for years, and i didn't trust the taste of anyone else i knew. This was both good and bad. I had that control, but it is quite a lot of work to acquire the wardrobe. Actually, what i did was just go shopping.... I'd charge clothes, masking tape the tags inside the sleeves or collars, and then return them to the stores afterward.... That worked, in every instance, but you have to be careful with everything. You especially have to be careful with shoes, as you can't return them if they've been worn. I did most of my shooting indoors/in my apartment studio, so i could tape the bottoms. I would recommend finding someone to do styling for you unless you really know fashion and want that challenge and those responsibilities.
So, we'd do the shoots. I usually took on too much, and planned to get too many different looks and tried too many different lighting setups during each day. But, that was, again, with film, when you had to wait 90 seconds for a single Pola to develop, and film was expensive, and the cameras were medium format (slow-ish).... We'd typically shoot for 8-ish hours, and i'd have two models at a time, alternating between them. You'll have to experiment to find out if that's a good way for you to work. I think i did it that way to get the maximum number of different types of images during a shoot, and to be able to work with one girl while the other was being made up and/or swapping outfits.
So, after the shoot, i'd send out the film for Clip Tests, get it back, make adjustments (a third of a stop!) and then process the rest. I'd then go over contacts, scan, retouch, and then take prints to the agent/booker. I almost never saw the models again, unless their was some sort of friendship. Usually, you would expect to be dealing with the bookers. Actually, i think i took contacts to the bookers first, and asked which they wanted printed.... I may have taken a couple of retouched prints with me, though, to show 'what could be,' because the film was just a raw starting point....
The bookers chose a few prints, and that was that. If you do well, they give you more girls. If you do really well, they give you more experienced girls, who might just not be as busy as they might want to be. The agents need to keep the girls occupied, and at least feeling like they're doing work, even if it's not for pay. And, just like you, they get better and more relaxed with each shoot.
So, that's how you start. After you've done a few shoots, you should start thinking about a website. Choose a couple of WORKING, high-end, magazine photographers, and design your site the same way as theirs. It will probably be on the 'minimalistic' side. That's what plays in the market. If you diverge from that, you'd better have a very talented designer working on it, and unless you're a graphic designer, odds are you won't really recognize a good designer....
So, once you've done some shoots, you're going to need to network and promote yourself to get some real work. I would start with small magazines and websites. To be honest, things have changed in the last ten years.... Back in 'my day,' the thing you needed was 'the tear sheet.' An actual magazine page, inserted into your physical portfolio. I have no idea what the industry is like now, now that magazines aren't as important and web media is so important. Still, though, tear sheets are probably the currency.
Work on that stuff and get some real work before you seek representation. Define your look. Don't try to shoot every kind of aesthetic. Try to develop a signature. Be kind to everyone you meet. Be respectful of the girls. Be professional.
The alternate route is to Assist. Unless you have connections, it may be quite difficult to find an assisting job without experience and/or proof that you know what you're doing. In the digital age, it may be easier. Back then, you needed to demonstrate proficiency in loading (fast!) the various medium format cameras. Probably should know how to use Profoto packs, and maybe HMI/high-end LED lighting.... Or, you might start as a digital tech, where you're in charge of copying cards to redundant hard drives, and possibly running Aperture or a RAW converter on a workstation.
Some things most people don't think about when they think about shooting fashion:
• On a real shoot, you have to lead a team. Hair stylist, MUA, clothing stylist, the model/s, assistants. And, if it's for a paying job, there is likely to be an Art Director and/or Editor, and possibly other folks involved on the client side. It's not nearly as autonomous as you might like. Take advantage of the 'testing' phase to do what you want.
• When i got into it, it was half out of a love of fashion photography and half out of love of women. But, i was out of college, in my mid-twenties, and the girls you get as "New Faces" are soooo young. 14-17. So, they were really rather 'moot,' in a way....
• Model agents/bookers are not fun to deal with. Actually, all of the people at the lower end of fashion are unpleasant to deal with. They're likely to be 'club kids,' and the like. They're flaky, outrageous, excitable.... You have to deal with 'personalities.' And the feedback you get from them may be completely ridiculous and uninformed. They may not really have a clue about photography or photographic history, or even about fashion. They may be in the business for altogether frivolous reasons. This is partially why i abandoned my hopes. I figured out that, although i love(d) fashion photography, i didn't like the fashion business or most of the people who choose to work in that business. The magazines are glitzy, but the process of getting to the pages is not. Unless you like that sort of thing.... You'll need to experience it to find out.
Also, after i stopped shooting, sites like ModelMayhem and OneModelPlace came into being. These may be worthwhile alternatives to going to small agencies to get girls for testing at the outset. These also work in small markets. If you're not in LA, NYC, Miami, i would definitely go to these sites to get my first 5-10 girls for shoots. You will, though, have to be very strong in your personal direction and styling, because these girls are not as 'industry-polished' as girls you will encounter at agencies, where bookers have prepared them for how things work. You will also find a great number of arrogant girls who really have no chance of being 'real' fashion models, but will still insist on payment and/or other unprofessional issues, like bringing 'chaperones' to shoots.... You just have to weed through.
Also....
"editorial work is what i'd want to do, honestly."
That sounds good. Editorial work is where the best work is done. BUT, be aware that editorial pays peanuts. Seriously. You can't make a living shooting editorial. Unless you become a major contract shooter. A guy like Meisel used to get a million a year to shoot editorial pages (90s money). Because he was the best shooter in the world, and Vogue benefited from having him attached. But, editorial pages don't pay much at all. A few hundred per page, probably. Models don't even make much for magazine editorial pages. Even for a cover. Editorial, though, is the gateway to advertising money, which is the real money. Editorial is the single best way to promote yourself and to develop a cohesive style/signature but it is not The Objective as far as 'career' and finances are concerned.
giellaleafapmu
Well-known
I must say that this has nothing to do with fashion phootgraphy, I heard the same sort of statement from people in all sort of professional photography: security guys at sport events and concerts are not pleasant, families of brides are not pleasant, chooks and editors of food magazines are not pleasant. The reality is that it is the photographer who is an unpleasant necessity, actors and actress would be happy to simply be hired without showing books, designers and stylists and restaurants to sell their stuff without waisting time and money with advertizing. And if you are organizing a baseball match why would you like to worry about that guy with that huge lens lurking behind the catcher? If you don't want to deal with unpleasant people maybe the only solution is to become a wildlife photographer and then never sell your picture (I am sure editors are unpleasant also in that area) but in general I would rather go hahead because even tough I don't know much about fashion I know that dealing with people is simple a necessity on any kind pf photography and it is not so bad if this is what it takes to do what you like and being payed for it!
GLF
CK Dexter Haven
Well-known
Not sure if this is miscommunication, or if we're really in disagreement on this. Fact is, any serious/professional endeavor of this type is not done in a vacuum. The people you work with and the people you work for have everything to do with the work you do. While it may be true that the photograph itself is not necessarily connected to these 'unpleasant individuals,' the process of getting work done Does depend on dealing with them. I shouldn't have used such absolute language in my post. I expected that people would read it all as an expression of opinion. Of course, not "all" of those people are unpleasant. Some were absolutely wonderful. My message was meant to express a broad view of my experiences.
There's an old expression in the advertising business.... My mentor and former boss was an actual 'Mad Men' guy from the 50s, and what he told me was used in the show: "Advertising is a great business.... Except for the clients." The meat of this is, yeah, we all love being creative and making pretty things. But, the reality is that if you do work in a creative field, you're only going to be as creative/good as the people you work with allow you to. The limiting factor is exterior.
And, i didn't say all editors, ADs, agents, etc are unpleasant. I'm an AD. I'm not unpleasant. I merely recounted my experiences, and conveyed that my dabbling in fashion photography was unsatisfactory, for the most part, because of lame, low-level model bookers. I could go into specifics, but hell, my original post was already too long, and the individual stories don't need to be told.
"The reality is that it is the photographer who is an unpleasant necessity, actors and actress would be happy to simply be hired without showing books, designers and stylists and restaurants to sell their stuff without waisting time and money with advertizing."
I have no idea what you mean here. This, actually, is NOT the reality. We're not talking about actor headshots. We're talking about fashion photography, which exists "to shift frocks." Without photography, dresses don't get sold, magazines and websites don't exist, and models don't exist. Without the photographers, there are no pictures, and the 'glamour' aspect of the fashion industry doesn't exist, and so, no — models would not be hired at all. Wasting time and money with advertising? Advertising is an investment. And, in the real world, it's necessary. If, as in your baseball example, a General Manager was organizing a baseball match, he absolutely wants the photographer behind home plate with the 600mm lens. Lurking? No. Promoting his business. I'm not sure what you're reacting to, or what world you live in, but the baseball match organizer NEEDS the photographer. If there are no images of the match, there is no money to be made.
Unfortunately, even your wildlife photographer example doesn't meet the 'reality' standard. A wildlife photographer doesn't work in a vacuum either. Instead of a model booker, he's got to deal with people, too. A book or magazine or calendar editor. A fixer. A pilot. A printer, a retoucher..... If any of these interactions proves to be distracting, he also might find his interest in The Process of Producing Images becomes less satisfactory than he imagined. And, this is what (a part of) my story was about. Simply, i loved fashion photography. Until i got involved with the realities of it. And, when those realities became 'problematic,' i found i was less and less interested in producing those images. Mind you, we're not talking about existing as a fashion photographer at the highest levels, where you have control over much more. We're talking about entry-level stuff, where you're learning, testing, experimenting, and all on your own dime, yet you still have to satisfy the people who are providing the models, and doing the hair and makeup. If your pictures don't make them happy, you don't get to continue working with them. It's all a compromise.
Yes, it is absolutely true that dealing with people is a necessity in any aspect of photography. It is also true that different sectors (tend to) have different types of people. If you actually shot fashion in a major city and have dealt with those people and are coming to this discussion to say that they are all delightful, well, that would simply be your opinion. You would be entitled to it. But, it seems like you're saying you haven't done it, and everything i've written is invalid. It's all opinion. My experiences are/were mine. And that's all they were - my experiences. You don't have to agree with how i felt about what i had to deal with.
Jamie123
Veteran
I know quite a few model agents/bookers and I find your statement spot on. That's exactly what they're like and it seems like there's an unwritten rule that the lower end they are, the more they try to make up for it with their 'personality'.
giellaleafapmu
Well-known
Yes, definitively I didn't express myself properly. I only meant that dealing with unpleasant people is a fact of life, it is not specific about fashion photography but this shouldn't put down anyone who wants to get started into any area.
My statement that we, the photographers, are unpleasant necessity was of course a joke. What I meant to say was that despite my previous statement that you meet unpleasant people in any job I don't blame them for that because anyone is doing his job and many times the photographer is one more variable which may be annoying even if
it clear that it is necessary, so when I meet someone who makes my day a bit harder I don't really get too mad at him because I think that I might have been just the same if I were in his shoes. In fact, sometimes I say this straight when something like this happens: "Look, I know you must do your work and that you would like things so and so but, please, understand that I have to do mine and I have no other way than asking you this and this". Sometimes they understand.
GLF
grapejohnson
Well-known
thanks everyone for the enlightening responses -- dexter -- those are exactly the kinds of things i wanted to know, i really appreciate you sharing your experiences here. i only use film, but i feel like if i got into fashion i'd get some kind of DSLR or something to at least proof the exposure. i am completely self-sufficient in developing my own film, b&w and color/scanning, so i don't think it could be that much of a problem.
like you, i want to do it out of a love for fashion, fashion photography, and girls. i feel like if hacks like terry richardson can be as famous as they are (and he's a total ****ing creep, mind you) and take such bad pictures, there should be some kind of a market for people who want to do it the "real way" and some of the best editorial work i see in RUSSH and i-D has clearly been done on film.
i know i'd need a stylist, and makeup artist, and that any magazine would have a specific kind of brand they need to promote or whatever. i also get that in the shots, it's important to show off the clothes and not just do artistic portraits.
i feel a lot more confident that there's at least some wiggle room and a place to start, at the very least by doing only one shoot, than i did earlier with some of the comments. thanks again!
like you, i want to do it out of a love for fashion, fashion photography, and girls. i feel like if hacks like terry richardson can be as famous as they are (and he's a total ****ing creep, mind you) and take such bad pictures, there should be some kind of a market for people who want to do it the "real way" and some of the best editorial work i see in RUSSH and i-D has clearly been done on film.
i know i'd need a stylist, and makeup artist, and that any magazine would have a specific kind of brand they need to promote or whatever. i also get that in the shots, it's important to show off the clothes and not just do artistic portraits.
i feel a lot more confident that there's at least some wiggle room and a place to start, at the very least by doing only one shoot, than i did earlier with some of the comments. thanks again!
koven
Well-known
Just go to fashion events in your area and meet people, they always want new and cheap photographers. There are also a bunch of Agencys (not sure about Pennsylvania) but in Toronto and New York there are modelling agency that will hook you up with models. Both of you build your portfolios so both of you benefit.
Jamie123
Veteran
You say you know that a magazine would have a brand to promote but keep in mind that your first published editorials will probably not be stuff you were hired to shoot. It's much more likely that you'll be doing a shoot yourself and sending it out to different magazines/websites to see if they want to publish it. There are plenty of magazines/websites that rely on such content. Don't expect to be paid, though.
Keep in mind that fashion photography is one of the most competitive fields as a photographer so don't be discouraged if it takes a long time to get ahead. Just start shooting and shoot often.
2WK
Rangefinder User
Sorry I didn't read everything. My advise, and I'm sorry if this is an addition;
Do not try to shoot "Fashion" type shots. Start with your friends. Shoot them in their surroundings. Simple honest shots, no posing. Keep shooting, shoot strangers. Develop your style. Put said shots on a website. Use a clean tumblr if you want, but get your own domain. If you feel like it, you can try sending this link to a model agency and explain your situation and ask if they have any new girls that need photos. They might even have makeup artists that need photos as well. Keep it simple and don't go in over your head.
Again, don't try to make it bigger than it is. Elaborate sets, poses, lighting etc. All that ends up looking amateur. Try to connect with your model and keep it real.
Don't go looking for agency representation. They will come looking for you if you are doing it right.
Good luck!
Do not try to shoot "Fashion" type shots. Start with your friends. Shoot them in their surroundings. Simple honest shots, no posing. Keep shooting, shoot strangers. Develop your style. Put said shots on a website. Use a clean tumblr if you want, but get your own domain. If you feel like it, you can try sending this link to a model agency and explain your situation and ask if they have any new girls that need photos. They might even have makeup artists that need photos as well. Keep it simple and don't go in over your head.
Again, don't try to make it bigger than it is. Elaborate sets, poses, lighting etc. All that ends up looking amateur. Try to connect with your model and keep it real.
Don't go looking for agency representation. They will come looking for you if you are doing it right.
Good luck!
Jamie123
Veteran
That's definitely good advice and I would add that you should also not go in over the heads of the people you're working with. In other words, don't set someone else (model, stylist, MUA) up for failure because you tell them to do something they're not ready for.
One thing I would disagree with, though. There's really no need to shoot friends unless you want to. Getting New Faces (i.e. new models) for a shoot is incredibly easy. All you need to do is ask. If the agency is good they will at least make sure you're not a creep (most don't) but whether or not you're a good photographer is not really important. The agency has nothing to lose and the model is eager to be photographed. Personally I have found that it's easier to become friends with models than to have my friends model (but I guess that really depends on your friends).
2WK
Rangefinder User
All I'm saying, and it doesn't have to be your friend....but shoot interesting people in comfortable surroundings. Photographs that have meaning, even if they are not "fashion" are much more important than trying too hard with an amateur model with her hands on her hips. Especially if you are trying to show someone your style. Why do they want to hire you? Because you have good "strobe skills" on girls from model mayhem...or because you have a good eye, and your work is beautiful in its own way.
Jamie123
Veteran
Yeah I do get your point but I was trying to tell the OP that he shouldn't have any hesitation about contacting "proper" model agencies and asking for models. It's no big deal and the worst they can say is no. This will happen sometimes but in most cases they will give you some models to pick from.
And the agencies don't really care whether or not you shoot the models in a fashion photography style. They're trying to sell a beautiful face, not a photograph so they'll actually be much happier about a simple beautiful portrait than a shot from far away of a model running through the African desert.
BlackXList
Well-known
I have to say that in my experience shooting at concerts, 99% of the time the security guys are great, not only professional, but helpful when they can be.
In fact there's a lot of them that I'm happy to see, and we stop and chat for a while each time I see them and catch up with what each other have been up to.
Whilst I'm sure that there are unpleasant people in every walk of life, I have to admit that I've found most people very personable.
In terms of fashion, it's not really an area I've worked in, but an ex of mine was a MUA, and what she did was get a group of people together, a stylist, a MUA, photographer etc, and they worked on building up portfolios together.
Obviously you'll want to work outside the group as well, just to make sure you have variety, but having a working group did seem a very good way of building up portfolios for all of them (and their subjects of course).
grapejohnson
Well-known
keeping on topic, as i hope we can, i really like the idea of starting a new tumblr or flickr to show off to potential clients and agencies only the best stuff. i've already developed what i consider a "style" and know all the technical things i need, i am completely self-sufficient in terms of developing, scanning, photoshop, etc so none of that should be much of an issue. i only like shooting people and have developed my style by shooting all kinds of people, friends and strangers alike, in intimate portrait style. basically, i feel ready, that my stuff is "good enough" now to try to do something with.
i moved to new york when i was 19 to try to "make it" as a musician, and i understand how a lot of that industry works, such as how many people are very enthusiastic when talking to you but actually couldn't give a ****. unlike the strange electronic music i was making, though, i feel like my photo style is a lot more accessible, and that there's a more likely chance of being able to do it professionally.
if nothing works out, i'll just be where i am now, except out a little bit of time money and effort, and i think i can handle that. i'd really just like to have new people to take pictures of and combine my interests in fashion and photography.
i moved to new york when i was 19 to try to "make it" as a musician, and i understand how a lot of that industry works, such as how many people are very enthusiastic when talking to you but actually couldn't give a ****. unlike the strange electronic music i was making, though, i feel like my photo style is a lot more accessible, and that there's a more likely chance of being able to do it professionally.
if nothing works out, i'll just be where i am now, except out a little bit of time money and effort, and i think i can handle that. i'd really just like to have new people to take pictures of and combine my interests in fashion and photography.