FED-1/Zorki bottom loading

[tenebrae]

I know this subject has been dealt with in several threads. I have used the search function and found the "sticky" thread-with-the-seven-pictures on how to bottom-load a Leica. I have studied several web pages that are available on the subject.

But... I just can't load this @Y$^#! Zorki properly! So far, I have used up two (2) complete 35 mm films, cutting and recutting and recutting the leader.

After sliding the cartridge and take up spool into the camera and seating them, and carefully taking up the slack a bit with the rewind knob, I try to wind the shutter one turn. It usually gets 3/4, and then the take up spool stops moving, and the sprocket teeth just start shredding the perforations! Needless to say, after this, the film does not advance one single millimeter any more.

I have experimented (as I said, two rolls of film...) with thin leaders, broader leaders, cutting with scissors or a hobby knife, short leaders, long leaders, nothing works.

Suggestions are (more than) welcome....

 

[kiev4a]

Have you checked the rewind knob to see how much tension it is putting on the film? If the teeth are tearing out the sprocket holes then something is holding the film from feeding. Some of the cameras that haven't been used or lubed for awhile shafts on the rewind that bind too much. A tiny bit of light oil on the shaft can make a world of difference.

 

[reagan]

Gotta go with kiev4a on this one. Something IMHO is amiss / in a bind or ... ?? Not speaking much from experience since I've only loaded three rolls in my recently aquired Z~1, but outside of my six thumbs being in the way, I got 'em to load. And the first [in my excitement over a new toy!] I forgot to trim. Still, it loaded and worked.

yeah, Just a tad of sewing machine oil might free things up a bit on the rewind end. I'd start there. Since you've trashed two rolls, keep shortening, trimming and rewinding them into the cannisters to practice with until you figure things out. Watch everything carefully. The rewind knob turns when you're winding on, right?

The trimming step - I just lengthened by a little the factory-cut lead, same width. Don't think it's that critical.

As far as the take up spool, the film doesn't turn ON the spool, does it? You say the spool stops turning, right? I ask because my Zorki 3M spool is really crap. (I have 3 Zorkis and 3 different types of spools - the 3M is the worst.) The "lip" that holds the film to the spool is really shallow and doesn't allow the film to go under it very far; easy for it to slip out.

Don't get stressed over it.... I know, too late. Anyway, once you figure it out and get it rollin' you are going to love shooting that thing and you'll be enjoying it for a long time. I'm likin' the heck out of mine.

 

[tenebrae]

Anyway, once you figure it out and get it rollin' you are going to love shooting that thing

That's what has kept me going. I WILL load a film into it AND use that camera, if it kills me. I just love the quirky design.

Thanks for your input so far, guys! So:
- the shape of the leader should not make a big difference
- the rewind shaft may be binding and needs lubing.

I'll give it another go and keep you posted...

@CVBLZ4: The rewind did not turn when I wound the film on, or maybe 1/2 turn. Then the film got stuck, the spool was held stationery by the (immovable) film attached to it, and when I cocked the shutter (winding the film) the sprocket teeth just cut into the film.

 

[tenebrae]

Some succes at last... The lubrication tip has worked on my FED-1 (which I also have, and which I could not get loaded properly either). The downside: the vulcanite covering has just started to come off below the lens. Not a very pretty sight. I know that there are some fancy camera body covers out there for FSU cameras (fake snake skin, alligator, Tyrannosaurus Rex) but are they also available for FED-1's?

As for the Zorki: I lubed it (but it turned rather well in the first place, compared to the FED). The problem seems to be that the pressure plate is too tight. I screwed off the lens and held open the curtain ("Z" exposure), and tried to slide a piece of negative in, along the path that the film has to travel when it is fed through the camera. It wouldn't fit in at the top.

That would seem to explain the pattern on the leader I have gotten all along: tears and black marks at the first "bend" where the film has to slide in between pressure plate and curtain housing (for want of a better name).

The back of the camera does not seem to be dented in.

Any (new) suggestions? Do I have to perform surgery on the Zorki?

 

[tenebrae]

Surgery succesfully performed... Thanks to Rick Oleson's webpages. Just unscrewing 13 screws gets you into the inner life of the Zorki.

Apparently, the camera had been opened before, because the short screw (top housing) was not where it should have been (just behind the wind knob), and the paper shims between body and lens mount were already in pieces.

The problem was caused by the pressure plate. It's not a symmetrical part. The top half is slightly thinner, the bottom half is thicker and has a bevelled edge. My predecessor had refitted it upside down, with the thicker part up. This prevented the film from sliding in.

After refitting, I succeeded in loading it with film in one go.

 

[pendevour]

Tenebrae, Firstly may I sympathise with you. Secondly can I suggest that if the guy who thought up the bottom loading system is still alive that he be arrested and tried as an international annoyance.

Having failed to load the film in the prescribed manner ( just couldn't get it properly seated) I have found a way to do it. It does mean having to lose a few frames at the start though. I start with a 36exp film and cut off the leader completely and then insert the film into the take-up spool and wind it on a couple of winds before inserting it into the camera. I now find that the film is much easier to load and it engages with the sprockets better. OK my 36 exp film is now a 30 ? exp but at least the camera is loaded and I'm relatively stress free.
Have a go and see how you get on.
Cheers
Arfon

 

[reagan]

Thank goodness! Good job tenebrae!! You had me scratching my head here all morning and I was getting ready to jerk what's left of the roll out of mine just so I could look in there. I came on to post the suggestion of partially dismembering and cleaning. I was thinking there might be film shard left over from the previous owner. But alas! He left you more than that!

Great work! My hat is off to ya! Now you can shoot all weekend!!

 

[kiev4a]

The "Leica tongue" need to be about half the width of the film and long enough to reach all the way from the take-up spool side to the film cassette. And when you cut it make sue the cut comes out between sprocket holes--not in the middle of one.

I would discourage using the thin plastic card to get film with conventional toungues to seat. Some people swear by 'em but you run the risk of damaging the pressure plate.

Some of the early Zorkis (the 1B) had a soft body that was easily deformed making it almost impossible to get a film cassette in, let alone thread the film. They have bodies with three screws in the back of the top. If you gave one, treat it very gently. The FEDS from the same period don't have the problem.

 

[reagan]

Yeah, good tips there Mr. kiev. And thanks tenebrae for the play-by-play. I always appreciate learning from the experience of others.

 

[tenebrae]

Well, I have to thank you all for your support!

And just to celebrate that the Zorki is finally working, I have made myself a leader cutting template, using some piece of thin sheet metal that I had lying around in my "bits & pieces box". I read about these templates in one of the MANY webpages I read when I was trying to solve the loading mystery. As I plan to shoot quite a lot with the Zorki, it may come in handy...

 

[bachjo]

Unfortunately I need to revive this film-threading thread. First, I must say--this is my first ever post although I've been lurking for months. I've found much here that has been entertaining, interesting and informative--so thanks all of you. And I suppose you all also deserve at least some of the blame for at least 3 of my 4 FSU rangefinders, purchased since I started hanging out with you addicts.

In any case, newly-arrived camera number four, a sweet little Fed 1("g" I think--one of the latter "1's") is giving me this same loading grief (as tenebrae originally described). This is my first bottom loader and the previous posts on this thread have helped me narrow in on the problem. I can load the film okay. And with the bottom off, I can snap and wind my merry way. But the instant I put the bottom plate on the camera the film binds between the pressure plate and the shutter cage--the sprokets tear out and that's the end of it. I'm working on destroying my third roll of film right now... Have any of you experienced this and have you got any suggestions?

I've had the thing apart three times and all appears to be in order. Unlike the Zorki, mine's got the round pressure plate which can go in any which way. The rewind knob turns easily enough. There appears to be sufficient grab on the spool. And, as I said, it works fine with the bottom off.

Incidentally, the Fed is dressed up like a pretty little Shanghai 58-ii. It will look nice on the shelf but I'm hoping for more. The thing is downright tiny compared to my Zorki-4 and Kiev 2a; it just begs to be put in your pocket and carried everywhere.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Figured I'd ask here first before I got out the power grinder or took some other drastic measure. Cheers, all, and thanks.