FED 2 - Shutter Curtain Sluggish (and even stranger...)

[mdc]

Okay, so my first FSU rangefinder arrived this morning, a FED 2 type D in fairly good condition... shutter curtains free from pinholes and generally quite sound metalwork... however, when performing my checks I noticed that the second curtain was fairly sluggish.


I put the camera on B and fired the shutter; the first curtain snaps open smoothly and sharply, and appears to be doing so at a reasonable speed... when releasing the shutter, however, the second curtain begins to decelerate after reaching 2/3rds the way across, and slows to a crawl, taking about 2-3 seconds in total to close. I gather this is quite common before CLA, but there's something even more odd going on.


I rotated the camera throgh 90 degrees (to portrait orientation) and fired the shutter again; this time, the shutter took about 4-5 seconds to close. I rotated through 90 degrees a second time, and it was back to 2-3, and rotating it a final time, to 180 degrees from portrait, it snaps across in about half a second.


Is this normal behaviour? And if not, how might I go about fixing it?


Any advice would be appreciated 🙂

 

[fanshaw]

My advice would be to disregard suggestions that all you need to do is to increase the curtain tension. Cleaning and lubrication is required.

 

[wolves3012]

First off, welcome to RFF!

Fanshaw is right, it's CLA time. You can probably effect a temporary fix by upping the tension on the second curtain but you'll only be delaying the inevitable and it may cause other problems. Getting a CLA will reward you with one of the most reliable and nicest FSUs. Just needs the investment in either time (DIY) or money (repairman).

Holding the camera in different orientations allows gravity to influence the internals differently, either helping/hindering the curtain or moving different bearing surfaces into contact, so affecting things. What you describe is fairly typical!

P.S. If you're at all mechanically-minded, the FED 2 is a pretty simple camera to pull apart and CLA, no nasty surprises await inside it.

 

[mdc]

Right, while awaiting responses earlier I decided to pop it open and check the internals. I gathered it might be the curtain tension when lubricating the shutter timer eased the problem slightly but not completely, so I attempted to increase the tension of the second curtain (which you've since advised me NOT to do - but, read on...), and ended up de-tensioning it completely. Then, for some reason, the ribbon uncoiled from the rollers and ended up becoming detatched, and is currently awaiting re-gluing (when I can pick up an appropriate adhesive).

So, with the camera essentially dead for the time being, I figured I might as well strip it entirely and perform a full CLA, which I've now done; just awaiting re-fitting of the shutter curtains. Only issue with it at the moment seems to be the vertical alignment of the rangefinder, which I'll adjust once the shutter is back in place.

I also stripped down the Industar 26 it came with; the original grease had turned a combination of too runny for the helicoid and solid for the aperture, but for some reason had migrated down past the aperture thread, meaning it was running on the bare metal. It's all now freshly greased up with some 25-year old Castrol LM, which has given a very smooth and far more resistant travel on focussing and aperture selection, quite useful since it's not stepped on the Industars!

So yeah, looks like I've ended up doing a full CLA anyway!

 

[Steve M.]

If it doesn't work out for one reason or another, (I have reasons for being a little pessimistic about FSU shutters, especially the Feds) get yourself a Bessa R or a Canon 7. Both have metal shutters, and I've never had one that had to have it's shutters attended to. The build quality of the Canon is very good too, but of course the Bessa is much newer.

 

[mdc]

Unfortunately they're both significantly out of my price range, as I'm a poor student who spends every penny he has on the first camera he sees rather than saving for one good one 😛 I did look at them original when I did my research on which RF camera to buy, but my budget ended up being about £30, which was just enough for the FED lol. The other rangefinder I have on my shelf is a Yashica Minister D I picked up with a stuck shutter for £3, which took about half an hour to get working again... possibly one of the best price/satisfaction ratios I've gotten out of eBay 😛

Well the camera's still in bits, have to wait until I can get to the shop tomorrow to pick up some glue... any recmomendations as to which type to use to reattach the ribbon to the metal roller?

 

[colyn]

Well the camera's still in bits, have to wait until I can get to the shop tomorrow to pick up some glue... any recmomendations as to which type to use to reattach the ribbon to the metal roller?

Pliobond. Can be found at many hardware stores. Usually in a tube..

 

[mdc]

From a quick Google it appears they don't market Pliobond in the UK... these are my alternatives by the looks of it:

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSearch=true&fh_search=Contact+Adhesive&x=0&y=0

This looks like it might work: http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9254418&fh_view_size=10&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB&fh_search=Contact+Adhesive&fh_eds=%c3%9f&fh_refview=search&ts=1284928756113&isSearch=true

There's an "instant" equivalent, but I figure I might need to reposition the ribbon after placing it on the roller, so it might be more sensible to use a slower-setting glue...

 

[wolves3012]

In the UK you can get Evo-Stik, which is what I've used for shutter curtains and ribbons. By the way, which ribbons have come unglued? If it's the curtain-drum end of things, you'll have fun because they need to be in exactly the right position for it to work properly. If it's the tension roller end, it doesn't matter as long as you attach both tapes to hold the curtain parallel.

 

[mdc]

Tension roller, luckily! Although I've noticed that on the curtain drum end the two ribbons aren't of equal length... Or rather, they are, but there's an uneqal amount of ribbon glued to the drum; is that common?

 

[wolves3012]

Tension roller, luckily! Although I've noticed that on the curtain drum end the two ribbons aren't of equal length... Or rather, they are, but there's an uneqal amount of ribbon glued to the drum; is that common?

Welcome to FSU quality control! Nothing new to have them unequally glued. They're glued, originally, with shellac I believe. Take care not to pull them off! I'd suggest making a score mark now, while you have the chance, on the drum end of things - just in case. Make sure you score into the metal, not just into the glue. A similar mark now on the curtain drum itself will do no harm either.

 

[mdc]

Will do 🙂 Is it worth me also re-gluing the curtain roller end so that they're even?

 

[wolves3012]

Will do 🙂 Is it worth me also re-gluing the curtain roller end so that they're even?

Provided they're positioned "square-on", which (from what you say) they are, it doesn't matter at all. Possibly worth adding some glue just for security but if they're stuck well I wouldn't bother.

 

[mdc]

Well I ended up having to re-glue practically everything anyway as the glue which held the ribbons to the drum and rollers was so weak it came off practically just by touching it. Just gotta re-fit and retension now, so we're into the "A" phase of the CLA 😛

 

[mdc]

Well the shutter assembly is finally back together now, just gotta give the VF another quick clean and pop the lid back on and I'm done... thank christ for that.

I'll shoot a couple of rolls this weekend and post the results, assuming they come out okay 😛