Fed / Zorki "flap"

R

ruben

Guest
Hellow FSU user brothers,

I feel ashamed to confess it, but besides my several Kievs I happen to own only one Fed 2. That's all my knowledge at the wide Fed/zorki variations.

a) Can anyone explain me why this noisy "flap" of the curtains ?

b) Are there any differences in "flap"/sound level among the many Fed and Zorki models, and if there are - who is the quietest ?

c) Are there any home arrangements one can make to reduce noise, besides using a case ?

No Kievnik provokatzia, I am really curious. I am getting interested in those dioptric adjustments.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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Hello Ruben, I think the noisy flap sound is just a charistic of the FSU that one has to live with, just like the quietness of a Leica is to it's owner. I have grown to enjoy the slap on my FSU's, especially the Zorki 2c I have. Outside I doubt the shutter is very loud at all. I took my Fed 5 to relatives over the Christmas hollidays and used it indoors w/flash, and it was quite loud but no one minded. Then my QL-17 is too quiet and many times I would wonder if the shutter was broken. So I like the sound of the soviet cameras. Such a manly sound I think.:D
 
I think it funny that there would be a flap about that. Try shooting with a Mamiya 645 if you want to hear loud.

Cheers
 
Some FED or Zorki just fire with more noise than other FED/Zorki, even within the same model groups. One of the most quiet-firing RF I have is a Zorki-1, and the noisiest I have are also FED and Zorki.

A lot can be traced to the type of shutter used in the cameras. The early FED and Zorki used a wrap-around lath (shutter cloth goes around the metal lath or spine). These shutters don't fire with much noise, often equalling the firing sound of an equivalent Leica.

The later (the models which followed FED-1 and Zorki-1) ones used an exposed metal lath where the cloth is crimped within. The exposed metal accounts for the extra noise- when they reach the end of their traverse, the curtain laths strike each other, as well as the metal parts of the shutter crate, and create the noise. Some FED-1 and Zorki-1 whose shutters have been replaced may be found with this type of shutter, and thus fire with more noise.

Some servicing may reduce noise, but nothing much can be done with shutters with metal laths. Those with the old-style shutters can be made less noisy.

Many cameras have shutters which are a bit too overtensed. Over tensioning not only creates more difficult winding, but also causes the shutters to traverse with more inertia and more noise. Restoring the correct tension (in FED and Zorki, the spring loaded shutter rollers need only 4-5 turns, sometimes, even less) can reduce the noise.

Jay
 
Jay

I've listened to mine and all the metal ones are noisy, all the fabric sewn over quiet, good information.

You dont have engineering drawings for the backbones for the sewn over shutters? Some of my early ones have been converted, and when replacing I'd like to change them back, rather then replace noisy with noisy. Ive not had to take a fabric apart yet...

Noel



Noel
 
Noel

A good machinist can probably mill a lath for you to replace the 'replacements'. The old-style laths are quite simple affairs- just a straight piece of metal with two cut-out indents for the straps on both ends. I don't have any of these out right now, but I can make a tracing of one when I do my next round of repairs- got five FED-1 queued for restoration.

In fact, I don't think that exact specs are even critical. You can use the current crimped spines to get the width and length. The laths I've seen don't seem to be of exactly the same size. Which camera (FED/Zorki?) are you working on?

Jay




Xmas said:
Jay

I've listened to mine and all the metal ones are noisy, all the fabric sewn over quiet, good information.

You dont have engineering drawings for the backbones for the sewn over shutters? Some of my early ones have been converted, and when replacing I'd like to change them back, rather then replace noisy with noisy. Ive not had to take a fabric apart yet...

Noel



Noel
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Jay

I dont have as many as you, but I think only a few dont need a rebuild, and they have sewn shutters so I dont have a sample, many other pressed metal ones, have pretty string of pearls problems, where the shutter has more holes than a collander. Most are pressed metal, it appears like it was more convenient to replace rather then refurbish shutters.

Thanks - the problem is I'd not want to strip a shutters, for investigation, if it might be ok, your information is probably enough. need to find cloth material, ribbon and some scraps of CRES.

Fed1s and Zorki1s, but no Fed-Zorkis

Noel
 
Xmas said:
Jay

I dont have as many as you, but I think only a few dont need a rebuild, and they have sewn shutters so I dont have a sample, many other pressed metal ones, have pretty string of pearls problems, where the shutter has more holes than a collander. Most are pressed metal, it appears like it was more convenient to replace rather then refurbish shutters.

Thanks - the problem is I'd not want to strip a shutters, for investigation, if it might be ok, your information is probably enough. need to find cloth material, ribbon and some scraps of CRES.

Fed1s and Zorki1s, but no Fed-Zorkis

Noel
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Noel

I sometimes suspect that some of the last FED-1 actually were given shutters with crimped metal laths. FED were ahead of KMZ (I think) to use these, and all the FED-2 I've seen had this type of shutter. It might as well be that the crimped metal spines were already around when the last FED-1 were getting off the lines. KMZ on the other hand continued the use of the wrap around lath up to the "2C" models, perhaps even the Zorki-3.

The crimped metal shutters were probably the only types around when time came to replace worn shutters. It's indeed easier to use- no measurements or sewing needed. Speaking of sewing, I've never sewn any of the wrap-arounds I repaired. They're held only by rubber glue and the hold appears to be good. The cloth would tear first before the bond is broken. Perhaps sewing was an insurance in those days before there was rubber glue or stronger adhesives. :)

And lastly, you may already have a FED-Zorki without knowing it. The earliest of the Zorki are very FED-like, meaning had FED, instead of Zorki features. Like having round pressure plates, tear-drop RF feelers, etc. They are FED-Zorki, but without the engraving responsible for the great price divide. :p

Jay
 
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Jay

Thanks you are a mine of knowledge. Alas my 1a (062xx) only missed the Fed-Zorki cut off by 500 or so, so has everthing but the name. It is in really nice condition after I bent it back into shape, and a sewn shutter that looks ok...

The 1as are a smaller series than the Fed-Zorkis, it is all in the name.

But there is film in the 1a, and a light yellow filter.

Noel
 
Ruben

So sorry, Jay is talking about Fed-Zorkis, and saying he has not got one, I've never seen one... and I had lapsed into a world of my own.

What happened the Nazis overrun the Fed factory, and post WWII they started up in KMZ making Fed follow ons called Fed-Zorkis they made about 5600, and they are rare. Then KMZ decided to change the name to Zorki and started the Zorki 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 1e, 2 series of near leica II 'clones'.

Only a collector can easily tell the difference indeed the e-bay people paint them black or gold and sell them as rare Leica II copies...

But Jay & I were talking about the flap (bang) of the curtains, or how to reduce the noise - by using curtains where the leading and training edges were rubberised... Back to your topic...

So if your fed 2 has pressed metal edges (the production standard) they are part of the noise problem but you could reduce this by backing off the preload in the spring tension and replacing the curtains with rubberised leading and training edges, your answer.

Noel

P.S. If you go walking in your mountains then the Zorki 1s and 2s are light to carry.

Noel
 
A 1A is the first type of Zorki or Fed. The soviets changed several things during the runs of their cameras, but wouldn't change the number or name. So you would have a Zorki 1, Zorki 1a, 1b etc till they changed to the Zorki 2. You see this most often with the FED series of cameras. I believe the FED 2 runs from A up through E or F maybe higher...
 
It's worth remembering that these gradations are the work of subsequent historians and collectors - as far as I know the Soviets never described cameras as a "1a, 1b..." etc. There was just a continual process of modification, so there are often interim variations as well. For example, I have a Zenit 12XP SLR which (new from the box) combines parts from the old 12XP and the "new" 122.

It's a bit like quantum reality, where something only becomes solid when you look at it, but is otherwise just part of the (production line) flow :D

Cheers, Ian :)
 
Ian

The Red Army did not type their T34 either it was the Nazi tankers that call them pigs heads (for the short 75mm) or whatever - the 85mm made an effective anti tank gun.

Jay was lamenting that the name plate made a big difference to the value but the camera was the same.

Noel
 
Purely anecdotally - I have a Zorki 4 recently restored to health bu Oleg that is quieter than my Leica IIIa and every bit as smooth to use. An awful lot depends on age and condition. I am constantly delighted by the way a well set up Zorki operates.
 
Xmas said:
Ian

The Red Army did not type their T34 either it was the Nazi tankers that call them pigs heads (for the short 75mm) or whatever - the 85mm made an effective anti tank gun.

Jay was lamenting that the name plate made a big difference to the value but the camera was the same.

Noel
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Absolutely Noel - I just thought it might help Ruben :)

Cheers, Ian
 
I have a well-serviced Zorki 1 that is close to my Barnack Leica's in noise level. I also like the fact that it doesn't have strap loops, as it fits into a pocket very nicely. Buy one of these from someone like Oleg, with a fresh CLA, and you'll find the FSU old stuff is not bad at all.

Harry
 
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