Ferrotype Plate in Print Dryer

[bence8810]

Hello,

I recently bought a print dryer - the cheap kind that comes with a cloth holding the paper flat (with a slight curve) onto the hot surface. My dryer can dry prints on both sides.

It came with a Ferrotype plate which I was eager to try as I have a bit of small glossy fiber paper so I'd like to work out a good method for drying them.

I ran a test and printed the same print 3 times and dried all of them differently.
One was dried on a cloth line with a clip, one in the dryer facing out towards the cloth and one facing down towards the ferrotype plate.

The test was very meaningful, I now see that the dryer does nothing special - at least for the 5x7 size which also dries semi-flat on a cloth wire. However, the ferrotype plate had a unique look which I'd like to experiment with more. My problem is the following, please see the pictures below.

At first I thought it was some contamination like no adequate washing but on closer inspection I see it is actually material that is uneven on the surface. At some parts it is completely flat and glossy like a mirror and in some other parts it did not get flattened and showing the fiber still.

Please see a shot of the paper below and a crop of the same image.
What did I do wrong?

I did squeegee the paper onto the ferrotype plate face down so there was water between the paper and plate as suggested in documents etc.

Thanks,
Ben

 

[Dante_Stella]

Ferrotyping was a way of increasing the gloss of fiber paper. The idea is that the emulsion molds to the shape of a super-polished plate. What you have is a pitted ferrotyping plate that is just impressing its pattern on your prints.

Dante

 

[bence8810]

Ferrotyping was a way of increasing the gloss of fiber paper. The idea is that the emulsion molds to the shape of a super-polished plate. What you have is a pitted ferrotyping plate that is just impressing its pattern on your prints.

Dante

Hi Dante,

I did think that initially but checking the plate I see it as smooth as a mirror. It has a few micro-scratches on it but they are straight lines and nothing like the crystal like shapes I am getting...

Ben

 

[maddoc]

The plate needs to be polished to obtain a mirror-grade surface. Kodak was selling Ferrotype Plate Polish, see this thread at APUG:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/73941-ferrotype-plate-polish.html

 

[x-ray]

See if you can find some Pakosol. It's a glossing agent and works quite well. If you can't search for a formula for print glossing agent. If I remember correctly it's glycerine, ethylene glycol (Photoflo 600) and May have a touch of denatured alcohol (can't recall for sure). I'd try a couple ounces of each per quart of water. Soak the prints in it for about three to five minutes. Use a good squeegee or roller to make perfect contact with the ferotype sheet. Prints must be in perfect contact. Also do not squeegee the front of the print. It must be completely wet when you put it on the plate. What you're seeing is poor contact with the plate.


There used to be a ferotype polish and cake Bonami ( don't use the powdered it's too abrasive) soap was good. You might try something like a fine metal polish but clean the ferotype thoroughly after polishing.

 

[bence8810]

Hello there,

The more I read the more I think it is some sort of a black art and people had trouble with it from the very beginning. But I can't help to wonder why people still go through all the pain and continue trying to get their prints ferrotyped. I need to see it at least once.

i'll try to mix some Wax and apply to the plate.

The parts where the print isn't damaged looks amazing!

If anyone has a recipe for a good polish please post it here. I see Yellow Beewax and Benzin (Benzole). The wax part would be ok but the Benzole is hard to come by and not exactly hazard free. Anything else I could try?

Thanks,
Ben

 

[ABrosig]

Remember what my first photo instructor, my father, told me, it's all about even pressure. unfortunately, an old print dryer like you describe probably can't generate enough pressure to keep the print absolutely flat and fully in contact with the metal surface. I think that's what causing the uneven finish you're experiencing. the canvas has probably simply stretched just enough over the years to give the results you're hoping for.

 

[bence8810]

Remember what my first photo instructor, my father, told me, it's all about even pressure. unfortunately, an old print dryer like you describe probably can't generate enough pressure to keep the print absolutely flat and fully in contact with the metal surface. I think that's what causing the uneven finish you're experiencing. the canvas has probably simply stretched just enough over the years to give the results you're hoping for.

That's a good note - I was thinking about that too. However, I also hear people who dry their prints without a dryer - just the ferrotype plate and the squeegeed print on top of it until it detaches on its own from the plate when ready. (hours I'd imagine)

Anyways, I see my dryer has two grooves to put the metal bar into. I only used the one that was easier to get to, the other one requires some real fight with the thing to stretch it enough to attach. I'll try that tonight or tomorrow and report back.

In order to avoid over stretching, when not in use you'd suggest I keep the canvas loose and not fastened?

Did you ever use some agent in between the plate and the print?
Thanks,

Ben

 

[john_s]

The surface of the ferrotyping plate is critical. Half a century ago, I had access to a photographer's flatbed dryer with a pair of ferrotyping plates (maybe chrome plated?), and I did some successful glazing, practically perfect. I had to return the dryer. Years later I bought a similar slightly smaller and more lightly built unit with a stainless steel glazing plate. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to glaze evenly. I did use Kodak Glazing Solution but I couldn't duplicate my old results. I then convinced myself that I preferred a non-glazed finish. Anyway, around that time people started using RC papers so the glazed look was no longer lusted after.

 

[ABrosig]

That's a good note - I was thinking about that too. However, I also hear people who dry their prints without a dryer - just the ferrotype plate and the squeegeed print on top of it until it detaches on its own from the plate when ready. (hours I'd imagine)

Anyways, I see my dryer has two grooves to put the metal bar into. I only used the one that was easier to get to, the other one requires some real fight with the thing to stretch it enough to attach. I'll try that tonight or tomorrow and report back.

In order to avoid over stretching, when not in use you'd suggest I keep the canvas loose and not fastened?

Did you ever use some agent in between the plate and the print?
Thanks,

Ben

Ben

I can remember my father using something from a small brown Kodak bottle on the dryer surface a few times. This is going on 40+ years ago, though. I'm guessing it was the glossing or release agent. But, like others said, we soon got into the wave of the early RC papers and really curtailed our use of fibre based. Also, the dryer got so old, we started having to use towels or acid-free paper as a buffer to avoid staining. Eventually the dryer was retired.

I ended up recently resurrecting an old print dryer. I had a new canvas made and fitted at an upholstery place, but the metal surface was so beat up I have to use acid free paper on both sides of the prints.

I would suggest getting the canvas just as tight as possible. If you can find one, get your hands on a printers roller. It's a small, hard rubber roller, probably available for a few bucks at an art supply store. After you get the canvas just as tight as you can, run the roller lightly but firmly over the surface to ensure the prints are as flat to the plate as possible.

I've personally never had a lot of luck with ferrotyping and I never personally was in love with the look. I appreciate the appearance of the "glossy" fibre papers straight out of the dryer, face up. But, good luck with your project.

 

[bence8810]

Hi All,

I have ferrotyped 4 more prints yesterday making sure that the fit of the canvas was really tight - as tight as possible - and yet still, all the prints showed the same surface unevenness of what I have copied at the first post here.

I am going to investigate with using some sort of a wax or polish. I guess anything that releases the print in a gentle way will work.

I'll post back. Meanwhile please don't hesitate posting any recipes you might have.

Ben