Leica LTM FILCA variations and history

[MrRom92]

Hey everyone. I have 3 FILCAs here. They’re all a bit different from each other in some aspects. I tried doing a bit of research and found that Leica produced 4 different types of these (A, B, C, and D) but there also seems to be many production variations even within those types. That’s as far as my research got me anyway.

I’m wondering what are the main differences among these types, and between what years were they manufactured? If I’m not mistaken, the FILCA actually pre-dates Kodak’s introduction of the 35mm cartridge in 1934, as there’d be no other way to load film in the earlier Leicas, right?

 

[David Hughes]

The quickest way to get an answer to the problem would be a photo or two of your cassettes.

In a nutshell, FWIW, the A has the top of the clip turned over and no guide groove in the inner part. The B has the clip end straight and the guide groove but the C has not been seen by a good few of us.

Lastly the D is stamped Agfe-Leica, or vice versa, and has a conventional felt or material lined slot for the film to go through.

Kodak's one came out with the Retina, which was their first 35mm camera.

Have you seen all the posts about them on RFF?

Regards, David

PS I tried to add a photo but they keep telling me there is/was an error on the server; meaning somewhere in the world...

 

[MrRom92]

The quickest way to get an answer to the problem would be a photo or two of your cassettes.

In a nutshell, FWIW, the A has the top of the clip turned over and no guide groove in the inner part. The B has the clip end straight and the guide groove but the C has not been seen by a good few of us.

Lastly the D is stamped Agfe-Leica, or vice versa, and has a conventional felt or material lined slot for the film to go through.

Kodak's one came out with the Retina, which was their first 35mm camera.

Have you seen all the posts about them on RFF?

Regards, David

PS I tried to add a photo but they keep telling me there is/was an error on the server; meaning somewhere in the world...

Thanks David, appreciate the info. I did a search and looked through a ton of threads here on the FILCA but couldn’t find much regarding their history. I’ll have to try and photograph them to share here later on (one happens to be currently loaded)

I did find one source (L camera wiki) that claims they were made between 1925-1954, and describes it as “Film cassette originally for Leica I (model A) only; center spool with locking device introduced in 1939; postwar with shiny brown finish”

I found another resource that is almost verbatim to the above except it says the locking device was introduced in 1937, so I’m not sure which (if either) of these is true.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Well, they are letting me in this time; here's a picture:-

On the left is the original; it didn't last long as it seems the thing came apart as it was being taken out of the camera.

Next to it is the "B" version with a groove cut into the inner container that runs up and turns round. A stub on the outer runs in it and locks it in position. Looking at the inner bit, you'll see the groove on the right of the large slot for the film to come out. The groove turns left at the top and goes about half way round the inner bit.

The Ilford cassette is standing in for all the version "C" cassettes that no one has seen. And it gives an idea of how the size has changed over the years...

Finally on the right is the Leitz-Agfa cassette and this is what they said at the time:-

Older models of the camera had to be modified to take this cassette and most/all I have seen were. That came from Fritz Vith's book the "Leica Handbook" and was published in German in 1933 with the English translation appearing in 1934. The Leica II was first sold in 1932.

In the book is a small picture of the "C" one and the slot for the film has a curved side to the left; it looks a bit like an afterthought someone has had...

If you are going to play with bulk loading etc then a Leitz AGRIF is a good thing to lay your hands on and, of course, an ABLON. Vith's book is worth tracking down too.

Have fun, David

PS They are all black in my collection; meaning pre-war. And I guess you know the M series FILCA is different yet again...

 

[MrRom92]

Hi,

Well, they are letting me in this time; here's a picture:-

On the left is the original; it didn't last long as it seems the thing came apart as it was being taken out of the camera.

Next to it is the "B" version with a groove cut into the inner container that runs up and turns round. A stub on the outer runs in it and locks it in position. Looking at the inner bit, you'll see the groove on the right of the large slot for the film to come out. The groove turns left at the top and goes about half way round the inner bit.

The Ilford cassette is standing in for all the version "C" cassettes that no one has seen. And it gives an idea of how the size has changed over the years...

Finally on the right is the Leitz-Agfa cassette and this is what they said at the time:-

Older models of the camera had to be modified to take this cassette and most/all I have seen were. That came from Fritz Vith's book the "Leica Handbook" and was published in German in 1933 with the English translation appearing in 1934. The Leica II was first sold in 1932.

In the book is a small picture of the "C" one and the slot for the film has a curved side to the left; it looks a bit like an afterthought someone has had...

If you are going to play with bulk loading etc then a Leitz AGRIF is a good thing to lay your hands on and, of course, an ABLON. Vith's book is worth tracking down too.

Have fun, David

PS They are all black in my collection. And I guess you know the M series FILCA is different yet again...

Thank you David, that is very helpful in showing the differences. D looks like such a step backwards from the previous design but I guess it was born of necessity.

Mine all look like the B, which seems to be the common one and most usable one - fine by me!

Do you know anything about that diagonal mark to the left of the film gate? I noticed this on one of mine and figured it may just be a scratch from handling/usage. But in looking at photos of them online, I notice a lot of them have a similar mark in the same exact position. It’s present on yours as well, what’s up with that? Was this done at the factory and does it serve any purpose?

 

[David Hughes]

Thank you David, that is very helpful in showing the differences. D looks like such a step backwards from the previous design but I guess it was born of necessity.

Mine all look like the B, which seems to be the common one and most usable one - fine by me!

Do you know anything about that diagonal mark to the left of the film gate? I noticed this on one of mine and figured it may just be a scratch from handling/usage. But in looking at photos of them online, I notice a lot of them have a similar mark in the same exact position. It’s present on yours as well, what’s up with that? Was this done at the factory and does it serve any purpose?

The line is curved and lines up with the curved cut where the film has been trimmed. It also reminds me to check that It's been wound the right way on to the spool.

There's lots about the nitty-gritty of Leicas in the book I mentioned, meaning "Leica Handbook" by Fritz Vith published in English in 1934. He lived in Wetzlar and says that gave him a special insight into the camera and so on. By the 1930's standards there's a lot of photos and so on. It's the only source I know for the "C" type cassette photographs; I'm sure you know how impossible it is to find early pictures of minor Leitz accessories.

Regards, David

PS (Edit) If you get your hands on a daylight loading spool of 35mm film (especially the Zeiss ones) from the 1930's you'll see that the FILCA was easy to load and use. I guess the Leitz-Agfa thing came about because of the Retina. If you are interested I'll dig out some photos of the early films as sold and used.