Film and airports

[jan normandale]

I read all the posts, including Bill's... I put my film in my luggage. Yes it gets scanned. No I haven't had any less issues on the final image than I've had from crummy processing... actually less issues from air travel affecting my film.

Mostly I shoot 100 - 400 ISO so maybe that is why I'm not having issues. Hand inspections!! Forget it. I don't need the special treatment syndrome.

Finally, alt plan # 23 ... buy film when you land, mail it when you leave.

Personally I think everything on this planet is now scanned for security, even containers, plane cargo, mail, you name it.

 

[bmattock]

I read all the posts, including Bill's... I put my film in my luggage. Yes it gets scanned. No I haven't had any less issues on the final image than I've had from crummy processing... actually less issues from air travel affecting my film.

I presume you mean your carry-on luggage. Film left in checked luggage will eventually be scanned, and when it is scanned, it will be destroyed if unexposed or simply unprocessed.

Mostly I shoot 100 - 400 ISO so maybe that is why I'm not having issues. Hand inspections!! Forget it. I don't need the special treatment syndrome.

I will agree that despite all my protestations, I never saw any of my film damaged to any extent I could see and blame on x-rays. For those who wish to be doubly-sure, hand inspections will *usually* be done in the USA if the TSA thug is asked nicely.

Finally, alt plan # 23 ... buy film when you land, mail it when you leave.

Depends a great deal on where you go, I suppose.

Personally I think everything on this planet is now scanned for security, even containers, plane cargo, mail, you name it.

Nope. Last watchdog report on the TSA stated quite clearly that third-party cargo on passenger planes is still only randomly inspected, and almost never scanned. It is the *appearance* of security, nothing more. Sorry.

However, if it were - mailing film would be a bit of a bother, as would importing it as Kodak, et al, do nowadays. Checked luggage scanners destroy film - always. If you have put film in checked baggage and it was not destroyed, then it was not scanned.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[jan normandale]

Hey Bill, maybe I'm lucky, dunno. My shots of Chicago here at RFF were fired into the checked luggage of the plane. What was left in my camera stayed in my carry on back pack. Maybe that's why they look better than usual .. ;- )

Interesting to find about the 'appearance of security' tho

 

[bmattock]

Hey Bill, maybe I'm lucky, dunno. My shots of Chicago here at RFF were fired into the checked luggage of the plane. What was left in my camera stayed in my carry on back pack. Maybe that's why they look better than usual .. ;- )

Interesting to find about the 'appearance of security' tho

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04728.pdf

Only read this if you want to be scared out of your wits. And it is no media thing - this is the US GAO's report on the TSA's performance as recently as 2004. There is another, similar finding for 2005, but I'm having trouble finding the link. Rest assured, most security is for 'feel good' purposes among passengers.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

EDIT: Ah, found the link:

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d0676.pdf

Scary stuff - they're still TESTING how they intend to scan parcel packages on passenger flights. Testing! Now, how good does that make you feel when you take off your shoes?

 

[sf]

I don't think you'd have any trouble with ISO800. I brought NPZ800 all over Europe, through all kinds of scanners - inside a lead bag - and nothing unpleasant happened to it.

THe Delta 3200 WAS fogged, however. So, stay away from anything over 800 and you can be sure that things will be fine.

Of course, this time of year, in Utah, you're not going to need anything faster than ISO 200 during the day and no more than 400 at night if you've got the f/1.7 on the Canonet.

Really, I find that I can get along with nothing but ISO 200 film all the time.

 

[rpsawin]

Here's a tist for you...

Last March I was in New Orleans for the LHSA Spring meeting. I took ~25 rolls of slide film with me. I had no problem flying out of Seattle. Upon my departure from the Big Easy I went thru the airport security check. I was taken off to the side and was detained by TSA guards because my film canisters tested for "explosives". Praise Allah!!!! WTF?

They tested the film twice and got the same results. They finally checked the canisters out and decided they were ok but they told me my name was on the incident list. When I got home I found my checked luggage had been searched as TSA as they left a note to that effect in the bags.

My advice...buy locally and mail your film off in prepaid mailers or to your local processor.

Bob Osama Sawin

 

[willie_901]

When flying I do one or all of the following.

o bulk load Tri-X into all plastic canisters; I push the rolls as needed.

o transfer the individual rolls of high speed film ISO > 800 film to 100% plastic cassettes

o buy the film when I arrive and ship it home after it's exposed


1/ TSA can do whatever they want, however they want. Yes there are rules etc., but none of that matters. The only thing that matters is get in line early if you have film.

2/ High speed film is no problem. Simply reload the film into plastic canisters. I stuffed a bunch of these in my pockets during a recent trip. I was very careful to remove all metal objects and my shoes so there was no chance I'd be hand searched.

3/ Chances are less than ISO 800 can go through the scanner. I had two rolls of NPZ800 go through unexposed and then exposed on the return trip. While the X-Rays certainly fog the film to some degree, the level of fogging is so low it invisable to the (my) human eye(s).

4/ If you request a hand check you may or may not get one. If you arrive very early you can ask to see a supervisor and insist on a hand inspection. But if they want to, TSA can tell you "too bad, put it through the machine, leave it behind, or don't fly".

5/ A reasonable TSA inspector will look at your plastic bag of film and let you through. An unpleasant inspector will slowly wipe and rewipe every canister. I like to have a book handy that I pretend to read while they do this. Talking on your cell phone while they wipe annoys them too. However when spoken to I always reply with very short sentences using an emotionless monotone.

6/ Except for stuffing my pockets with plastic canisters, I have had a different outcomes everytime I've gone through security. I've had film in lead bags go right through. I've had film in lead bags be removed and visually inspected. I've had film in plastic bags wih leaders showing swiped. I've had hand checking refused. I had one inspector hold my clear plastic bag full of canisters with leaders showing ask, "If I open this bag will it harm me in any way?"

Unless you break the law (joking, sarcasm and telling them off is illegal) the worse they can do is delay you while they wipe, re-wipe etc,. If you have time to spare, who cares?

 

[kaiyen]

First off - your film will receive more radiation while you are in the air than it will on the carry-on scanner. I wish I still had the thread, but this is scientific fact.

So...don't worry so much about it. I've had Delta 3200 and TXT @ 3200 go through...7 carry-on equivalent scanners without a noticeable change in base fog (the latter as compared to TXT @ 400). I ask for a hand check when I can, but if I don't get one it's no big deal.

And I've _always_ had the TSA do the wipe-every-canister hand check, and they have always been pleasant.

allan

 

[BrianShaw]

Hey Bill, maybe I'm lucky, dunno. My shots of Chicago here at RFF were fired into the checked luggage of the plane.

If your checked bag (with film) went throguh a CTX machine... you are lucky! The manufacturer of CTX almost guarantees that film will be noticably affected if given the "full CTX treatment"... X-ray plus CT.

 

[BrianShaw]

Fourth - The TSA is dead wrong when they say that x-rays don't damage film. Any high-energy particle that passes through film damages it. Simple physics. The question is NOT if it damages film, but HOW MUCH. The TSA says that most film can withstand up to five passes through USA x-ray machines at carry-on inspection stations. I've not had any film damaged to the point where I could notice it, ever. However, it is technically incorrect to say it was not damaged.

TSA is not making this up on their own, but they are (as you say) simplifying the real facts of the matter.

There was an industry consortium that did honest-to-God scientific testing of film and the effect of X-ray screening. They published findings that quite clearly show what film, and under what circumstances, are at risk. It was from this study that the TSA guidelines were developed. Somewhere on my computer is that report... but I can't put my finger (cursor?) on it right now. It is quite interesting. It's onthe web... but I can't find the link at the moment.

If I remember correctly, the report never said anything as definitive as "slow film won't ever be damaged" or "there is absolutley no damage to film under any of the studied conditions"... but they did say "you probably won't ever notice the damage unless... (it's really fast film; it's repeatedly x-ray'd; you are outside of US where the rules and x-ray doses are different; it gets hit by a CTX machine vs Rapiscan or the equivelent 'carry-on' x-ray scanning machines)". The report also had great illustrations of everything from minor to severe x-ray damage.

 

[lynn]

I work at Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, and handled a complaint recently from an American woman whose unexposed film was run, despite her protests, through the X-ray. Security guards had reassured her that the control could do no harm, and that hand-scanning was superfluous, but the photos she sent us - as examples of the damage - showed an ugly tunnel-like overexposed distortion.
The security check may not have been the outright cause (the manufacturers of the machines insist that they are safe), but I would definitely not be delighted if it happened to me, and I consider myself forewarned.

 

[BrianShaw]

"The International Imaging Industry Association (I3A) has completed a series of tests evaluating the effects of the CTX-5000SP checked baggage inspection system on
photographic films.

www.i3a.org/pdf/ctx-5000sp-camera_films_report.pdf

"The purpose of this test was to determine the maximum X-ray exposure high-speed photographic film products can tolerate before functional damage occurs. This information was requested by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) in an effort to determine the optimum dosage to both minimize damage to film products, yet maintain the ability to recognize the contents and provide an adequate level of security."

www.i3a.org/pdf/I3AFilmXrayTestReport.pdf

 

[ch1]

in two weeks, I'll be taking a trip to Salt Lake City, Utah.. it'll be the first time I've taken a real camera through an airport

I haven't decided for sure, but I'm thinking of taking just a Canonet (and possibly my Contax T) in order to KISS, and minimize any trauma due to damage or theft.. it will also allow me to stuff the camera in a carry-on along with my laptop

but my real concern is how to handle travelling with film through airports.. I'm thinking of shooting all slide film and mailing it to A&I in prepaid mailers while I'm still in Utah, rather than hassling with security checks and x-ray equipment.. given the extreme security measures in the US, what tips can you give me?

Brett,

I just returned from Tucson yesterday after spending 5 days shooting six rolls. I shot 'chrome which I then sent out to K & F (as the case may be) from the mail box in the airport.

For the other three rolls I put them im my x-ray bag in my carry-on (I only do carry-on for trips to our house in Tucson). Security then asked to do a hand search after noting the bag in the bag. I said certainly. She used the "wipe-wand" on the bag to check for explosive residue (no issues) and then hand inspected the three rolls of film.

No muss, no fuss. If you use an x-ray bag just expect it to require a subsequent hand inspection. Be nice and they will be nice. The whole episode took maybe two or three extra minutes - part of which was joking about the frozen piece of smoked ham that was also in the carry-on! 😀

Oh, I had originally taken all of this film out to Tucson last November - again in the x-ray bag and with similar quick hand inspection. When I did that, I took all of the film out of the plastic cans before putting them in the bag (kept the cans separate). That made the hand inspection much easier. Oh and also, put the film cannisters in a plastic bag inside the x-ray bag. That way when the inspector pulls them out they won't go flying all over the place! 😉

 

[ray_g]

I've read that lead film bags are useless because the x-ray operators will just crank up the machines even higher until they get an idea of what you're hiding

I don't know about that. I came home with some Delta 3200 a few weeks ago, in a lead bag in my carryon. I would have preferred a hand inspection, but I wasn't sure about getting it, or even communicating my request, flying out of a non-English speaking country's airport. I figured if they wanted to look closer, then that would lead to the hand inspection that I wanted in the first place.

 

[ray_g]

And the lead bag I used was one by HAMA, and labeled as being safe to iso 3200. It was a bit more expensive than the other lead bags, but after reading some posts above, I guess it was worth it.

 

[ch1]

I've read that lead film bags are useless because the x-ray operators will just crank up the machines even higher until they get an idea of what you're hiding

Brett,

As a follow-up to your follow-up, this WAS NOT my experience in Tucson yesterday.

First of all, you are not "hiding" anything. You are simply protecting the film. Be prepared to explain things because they will "see" a black spot in your carry-on and ask to inspect your bag. Tell them" "Certainly, sir, you probably see there is a film bag in there." 😉

What's the big deal? It's not a "secret"

For me yesterday TSA was "satisfied" with a hand inspection of the film. They did run the empty x-ray bag through again (together with the smoked ham which was wrapped in aluminum foil) - I guess to confirm those were the "blocks" they saw the first time - but the film was only hand insptected.

Of course I now have this hunk of ham sitting in my fridge glowing like a light bulb - I guess it's still okay to eat? 🙁 😀

 

[bmattock]

I am posting, one last time, the TSA's recommendations regarding transporting film.

Do what you want to do. Believe what you want to believe. I don't care any longer.

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=090005198004a860

We recommend that you do not place your film in lead-lined bags since the lead bag will have to be hand-inspected. If you have concerns about the impact of the X-ray machine on your undeveloped film, you can request a hand inspection.

http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1248.xml

The equipment used to screen checked baggage will damage undeveloped film. Pack your undeveloped film in your carry-on bag. High speed and specialty film should be hand inspected at the security checkpoint. To facilitate hand-inspection, remove your undeveloped film from the canister and pack in a clear plastic bag.

http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1035.xml

WARNING: Equipment used for screening checked baggage will damage your undeveloped film.
...
Never place undeveloped film in your checked baggage.
Place film in your carry-on baggage* or request a hand inspection.

* Carry-on screening equipment might also damage certain film if the film passes through more than 5 times.
...

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=09000519800720a4

Put all undeveloped film and cameras with film in your carry-on baggage. Checked baggage screening equipment will damage undeveloped film.

http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1035.xml

If you plan to request a hand inspection of your film, you should consider carrying your film in clear canisters, or taking the film out of solid colored canisters and putting it into clear plastic bags, to expedite the screening process.
...
We recommend that you do not place your film in lead-lined bags since the lead bag will have to be hand-inspected. If you have concerns about the impact of the X-ray machine on your undeveloped film, you can request a hand inspection.

You may still consider bringing a lead-lined bag if you are traveling through airports in other countries as their policies may vary. Check with your airline or travel agent for more information on foreign airports.

 

[StuartR]

I am getting ready to go to Iceland on the 8th, and I will be bringing with me about 80 rolls of 35mm, 120 and 220 film. Cost and availability are a problem in Iceland, otherwise I would not go to such trouble. All of it will be in hand luggage. Normally, I would ask for a hand inspection, but the liklihood of it being granted for 80 rolls is slim, and to wait that long would be a nightmare. Keep in mind that they have to open the foil of every single 220 and 120 roll, which is not great for light-tightness if you are going to be in the sun later. I have travelled all over and had film go through a number of x-rays without ever seeing noticeable fog. That said, I mostly shoot ISO 100 film. I will be bringing along some ISO 400 film like Tri-X. I will probably separate those out for a hand inspection.

Keep in mind, if you push your film, it in effect becomes a higher ISO film. So if the Xray machine says safe below 800 and you shoot your Tri-x at 1600, IT IS NOT SAFE. Tell the TSA people that. I have done that in the past and it works. "Sir, this is a 400 ISO film." "Yes sir, I realize that, but I shoot the film at ISO 1600 for low light work." Bingo, problem solved. I am not saying it will always work, but if you are polite, rational, and don't act like every little thing is your god-given right, then usually you can get what you are asking for.

 

[BrianShaw]

I am posting, one last time, the TSA's recommendations regarding transporting film.

Do what you want to do. Believe what you want to believe. I don't care any longer.

That's fine with me!

 

[BrianShaw]

Keep in mind that they have to open the foil of every single 220 and 120 roll, which is not great for light-tightness if you are going to be in the sun later.

Believe it or not, I've never had 120 film removed from the foil by TSA. They've always swabbed the foil while doing trace-detection. They have asked if they could take the film out of pro-pack boxes, but never the foil.

Once I even handed Hassy film backs to TSA and mentioned that they had film in them. They didn't do much more than look at them and hand them back to me. The agent on the X-ray machine looked at the image of my camera and asked "Is that a Contax 645?" When I told him it was a Hasselblad the kid insisted on handchecking my bag... admitting all the time that he has never handled a Hassy and really wanted to see what one felt like. It was a small town, so cheap thrills appeared to have been the order-or-the-day!