furcafe
Veteran
I think I get your point, but it seems you're exaggerating the # of these controls you have to use to take a normal photo w/the F. Also, any similar level Nikon dSLR will have almost all of them (sadly no changing of prisms anymore) *plus* the buttons & menus relating to autoexposure & autofocus (which are not related to digital) & the digital-related menu items (file quality, etc.), which greatly outnumber all the controls connected w/film loading & unloading. So I would agree w/you that the difference is not about film v. digital, but rather modern electronics v. older mechanical systems. Electronics allowed camera makers to squeeze in a lot more features, but at the cost of greater complexity in the controls & reliance on menus. Also, in my experience there is greater diversity between operating systems on modern cameras than there was between the old classics (even including weird systems like the Prominent, Contarex, & Ektra).
Yes you can set most modern cameras to work like older, less-automated cameras, but it's not necessarily a simple process. It took me several hours, really an entire night, of reading the manual & setting the menus on my 1st dSLR, a D700, to get it to function like an F3 w/autofocus. Of course, had I been keeping up w/pro Nikon bodies over the last 15 years, the transition would have gone more smoothly. My X-Pro1 was less complicated, but still took an hour or so total to understand the qurks & get it to work like a G2 (also the manual is written even more poorly than the D700). The M8 & M9 were comparatively easy to figure out, but their electronic feature set is as primitive as the cameras themselves. Bottom line for me is the more the camera does, the more complicated the controls & the bigger the manual.
Yes you can set most modern cameras to work like older, less-automated cameras, but it's not necessarily a simple process. It took me several hours, really an entire night, of reading the manual & setting the menus on my 1st dSLR, a D700, to get it to function like an F3 w/autofocus. Of course, had I been keeping up w/pro Nikon bodies over the last 15 years, the transition would have gone more smoothly. My X-Pro1 was less complicated, but still took an hour or so total to understand the qurks & get it to work like a G2 (also the manual is written even more poorly than the D700). The M8 & M9 were comparatively easy to figure out, but their electronic feature set is as primitive as the cameras themselves. Bottom line for me is the more the camera does, the more complicated the controls & the bigger the manual.
Don't know what you're trying to say. Only three controls? On what camera? Even on my plain prism Nikon F I have:
Back release
Take up spool
Film advance lever
Lens mount catch/release
Shutter time selector
Flash synchronization selector
Self timer
Self timer release
Focusing ring
Aperture selector
Depth of field scale
Focus indicator
Focus scale
Prism release catch
Focusing screen
Film rewind clutch release
Film length reminder
Rewind knob
Folding rewind crank
Depth of field preview button
Mirror lock up latch control
To use the full capabilities of a Nikon F, you have to understand and use about 3/4 of those controls virtually every time you pick it up to make some photographs. And that is a relatively simple film camera ..there's only a couple of things there that are not also on my Rolei 35S. Or Leica M.
Film cameras seem simpler because every photographer who worked with film seriously learned all these controls and operated most of them without thinking about them much. The controls on digital cameras are similar in most ways, different in others. There's the added complexity of a complete image processing lab in every digital camera ... But for the most part you can ignore it, much the same way you normally ignore the flash sync setting and mirror lock up control on the old F once they're set for use.
On a digital camera you have to remember to turn it on, and maintain the battery every few hundred frames, and change the storage card when it's full.
On the old F, you have to rewind and reload film every 36 frames, set exposure when needed, wind on to the next frame as needed, etc.
Each camera takes up as much of your consciousness and attention to use as you allow it to.
furcafe
Veteran
I hope you enjoyed your visit to our city!
To answer your question, I routinely shoot w/both film & digital while on vacation just like I do at home, & concur w/others that each medium has its complications, i.e., it's a wash.
To answer your question, I routinely shoot w/both film & digital while on vacation just like I do at home, & concur w/others that each medium has its complications, i.e., it's a wash.
thirteen
Established
KISS - travelling I take my X100, a couple of SD cards, one spare battery and charger. Everything in one small camera bag.
No sensor dust, no X-ray worries, no film to carry and/or find.
I save my F2 and Retina IIIC for closer to home.
No sensor dust, no X-ray worries, no film to carry and/or find.
I save my F2 and Retina IIIC for closer to home.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
This is over the top, I know, but as a pedantic exercise ... ;-)
Let's think about that ...
Need to load film:
Need to set exposure:
Need to focus and/or set the focus:
Need to make the exposure and wind on to the next frame:
Need to rewind the film and take the film out of the camera at the end of the roll:
Take a photo of yourself with your family using the self-timer:
Assuming you have set up flash sync, pre-installed the appropriate focusing screen, have the lens you want to use on the camera, don't need to preview the depth of field, don't need to lock up the mirror, and don't care to set the film length reminder, you can ignore these:
That's 16 out of 23 controls that one likely needs to use every time you use the Nikon F camera. Okay, slightly less than three quarters of the total number of controls ... =8^)
My Ricoh GXR-M has a bazillion more features, buttons, menu options, controls, etc than the Nikon F. Took me a little while to learn them and set up the configuration to my liking. Now, every time I use the camera, I have to:
That's using the
So I use six or seven controls on the GXR rather than sixteen on the F, on a regular basis.
Only camera I've owned that has only three controls beyond a fixed-focus disposable is something like my Polaroid SX-70 ... load film, adjust focus, adjust bright or dark control, press shutter release. Simplicity itself! What to carry on a trip? Camera, stack of film packs — done.
Life's too short to not enjoy a pedantic moment!
Enjoy the End of the World Day!
G
Let's think about that ...
Need to load film:
Back release
Take up spool
Film advance lever
Take up spool
Film advance lever
Need to set exposure:
Shutter time selector
Aperture selector
Aperture selector
Need to focus and/or set the focus:
Focusing ring
Depth of field scale
Focus indicator
Focus scale
Depth of field scale
Focus indicator
Focus scale
Need to make the exposure and wind on to the next frame:
Shutter release button
Film advance lever
Film advance lever
Need to rewind the film and take the film out of the camera at the end of the roll:
Film rewind clutch release
Rewind knob
Folding rewind crank
Rewind knob
Folding rewind crank
Take a photo of yourself with your family using the self-timer:
Self timer
Self timer release
Self timer release
Assuming you have set up flash sync, pre-installed the appropriate focusing screen, have the lens you want to use on the camera, don't need to preview the depth of field, don't need to lock up the mirror, and don't care to set the film length reminder, you can ignore these:
Lens mount catch/release
Flash synchronization selector
Prism release catch
Focusing screen
Film length reminder
Depth of field preview button
Mirror lock up latch control
Flash synchronization selector
Prism release catch
Focusing screen
Film length reminder
Depth of field preview button
Mirror lock up latch control
That's 16 out of 23 controls that one likely needs to use every time you use the Nikon F camera. Okay, slightly less than three quarters of the total number of controls ... =8^)
My Ricoh GXR-M has a bazillion more features, buttons, menu options, controls, etc than the Nikon F. Took me a little while to learn them and set up the configuration to my liking. Now, every time I use the camera, I have to:
- turn it on
- set the focus (manual focus with an M-bayonet lens)
- set the aperture (auto ISO and aperture priority default config)
- adjust ev compensation if required
- release the shutter
... repeat for as many photos as I want to make
- open the card door
- remove the storage card to upload the exposures to my computer
- replace the storage card and lock the door.
- set the focus (manual focus with an M-bayonet lens)
- set the aperture (auto ISO and aperture priority default config)
- adjust ev compensation if required
- release the shutter
... repeat for as many photos as I want to make
- open the card door
- remove the storage card to upload the exposures to my computer
- replace the storage card and lock the door.
That's using the
on/off switch
focusing ring (scales, indicator, etc)
aperture ring
EV compensation +/- switch
card door latch
card locking mechanism
focusing ring (scales, indicator, etc)
aperture ring
EV compensation +/- switch
card door latch
card locking mechanism
So I use six or seven controls on the GXR rather than sixteen on the F, on a regular basis.
Only camera I've owned that has only three controls beyond a fixed-focus disposable is something like my Polaroid SX-70 ... load film, adjust focus, adjust bright or dark control, press shutter release. Simplicity itself! What to carry on a trip? Camera, stack of film packs — done.
Life's too short to not enjoy a pedantic moment!
Enjoy the End of the World Day!
G
Pioneer
Veteran
+1
I couldn't agree more, except for me it is the IIIc, two lenses and 10 rolls of ISO 400 135/36 film. Everything goes in my fanny pack. When I get a few rolls built up I send it to North Coast Photo and a lot of times the negatives and pictures are waiting for me in my mailbox when I get home.
The very first time I did this I was nervous as a cat. I had read so many horror stories on the internet about carrying film. Now it is literally no drama at all for me.
In the beginning I packed a lot of film. But there is one little thing I have noticed as I get more accustomed to doing this. When I am walking around with a digital camera I see memory cards at the stores. When I have my film camera I see film at the stores. A lot of times it isn't the same store but its' still there. Now I don't feel the need to carry a lot of film unless it is something exotic I may not find.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
I wonder where you learned that. Whenever I go on longer trips not to do with my job, I never take a laptop or drive with me. Just a handful of cards will do nicely. And dust...not a problem...bring a rocket blower and use it. That's about it. This said, on longer trips, I like to bring 35mm cameras and film... the only compromise/investment I've had to make: to buy one of these ThinkTank roller bags and cram it with cameras, lenses and film...with a walk-around bag in one of the suitcases. No problem. Enjoy your travels and looking forward to the results. Best, Peter
btgc
Veteran
It depends on what and how do you shoot...since now I've traveled with two film cameras, color and B&W. This year I chose Pentax P&S as my color camera and returned happy, with pictures and without worrying about chargers etc. Now I realize several charged batteries are similar to several rolls of film....both routes have strengths and weaknesses.
Untitled by mm35exp36, on Flickr
Untitled by mm35exp36, on Flickr
robert blu
quiet photographer
I was in a similar discussion with a couple of friends a few days ago...planning an overseas trip of 3/4 weeks. With film I need 1/2 rolls a day, let say 30-40 rolls. But maybe I desire to shoot outdoor and indoor, it means two different iso film. Or maybe three if you plan to shoot in low light, for example a jazz club. When traveling I only shoot B&W or color, never mixing the two, easier. Of course all in your cabin luggage, with camera and lenses and ...hmmm, some companies allow only one cabin luggage, cameras, lenses, other parafernalia....hmmm easier to go digital....camera(s), cards, laptop, external hard disk for backup, cables, charger for cameras batteries (and with two cameras if they are different two chargers of course), charger for the laptop, charger for the mobile phone (well, it is necessary with film as well) hmmm so many things...
My conclusion? it's a complicated world in any case.
robert
My conclusion? it's a complicated world in any case.
robert
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I'm going to Tijuana Sunday, back on Wednesday:
In my camera bag:
- Leica M9 with two fresh batteries, 32G card, Nokton 50/1.5
- iPad mini, charger, camera connection kit
- iPhone
Enough to make 1600 exposures. 3 lbs.
That's it. ;-)
G
In my camera bag:
- Leica M9 with two fresh batteries, 32G card, Nokton 50/1.5
- iPad mini, charger, camera connection kit
- iPhone
Enough to make 1600 exposures. 3 lbs.
That's it. ;-)
G
whitecat
Lone Range(find)er
I usually take about 20-30 rolls when I travel. I'm finding I can have twice the shots with my Olympus half frame so I can stick close to 20 now.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Been traveling solely with digital cameras for years now and find them no more or less convenient than film cameras. Digital takes up no more room in my bag than film did either. I never travel with a laptop or separate backup device and just take a few extra CF cards. Never had a bum CF card but have had labs ruin entire rolls of film from a trip. A spare battery takes up little room in a bag and I rarely need it. At the end of the day I insert the spare and charge the old one while I go to dinner. hen I get back I have my fully charged spare for the next day. Back at home my PC will download an 8 gig CF card in a few minutes so no biggie there and neither is copying them to a separate hard drive. You can make anything as complicated or simple as you want. I see no reason to complicate things.
Bob
Bob
robert blu
quiet photographer
greyelm
Malcolm
Many years ago a colleague of mine arranged a trip of a lifetime touring the US. He took an SLR with several cassettes of film which he used throughout the 3 week trip. On his return he had the films developed and not one came out, the SLR body had let him down. I think his son's P&S did provide some shots.
One of the many benefits of digital is that you can tell whether a shot has come out or not. On a trip I would certainly use a different SD card each day just in case the camera got stolen.
One of the many benefits of digital is that you can tell whether a shot has come out or not. On a trip I would certainly use a different SD card each day just in case the camera got stolen.
Dave Jenkins
Loose Canon
Godfrey, technically you are right, but the point of what others have been saying is that you don't have to go menu-diving for any of those controls. After reading the (very thin and simple) instruction book and with a little practice, all of the controls on the older manual cameras become second nature. A man named Kenneth Tydings wrote after-market instruction books for many cameras in the '50s and '60s. He broke the operation of a camera down to four simple steps that he called "SAFE."
1. Shutter
2. Aperture
3. Focus
4. Expose
It really is that simple, but you can make it more complex if that's what you like.
If you prefer complex, by all means get an OM-D. I love mine (most of the time), but setting it up is an exercise in menu-diving in which you may well drown if you aren't very careful.
1. Shutter
2. Aperture
3. Focus
4. Expose
It really is that simple, but you can make it more complex if that's what you like.
If you prefer complex, by all means get an OM-D. I love mine (most of the time), but setting it up is an exercise in menu-diving in which you may well drown if you aren't very careful.
thegman
Veteran
I use a Super Ikonta III, it's very simple to use. I have never used one before, but I'd worked out how to use it in a few minutes. Compared to my old Lumix G1, or Nikon D7000 it is an exercise in simplicity. Sure you have to load a film, wind it on, all that stuff, but if you've used a film camera before, it's all second nature.
I think the difference is that classic film camera do not add unnecessary stuff to confuse matters, whereas cameras like the Lumix G1 seemed *only* be unnecessary features, and obfuscated the basic ones.
The last few cameras I bought did not come with manuals, and they don't need them once you've mastered a few things. It's like a bicycle, once you get the basics, you don't need to be taught anything.
Vincent.G
Well-known
Raid
I recently travelled with my Hasselblad 503CX + Planar and Hasselblad XPAN + 4/45. Of course, my hand carry was full of 120 and 135 film.
Unfortunately my 503CX jammed in day 2 of the trip. I don't have a 120 backup camera.
I was forced to use my XPAN for the rest of the entire trip. Troublesome at times to switch between colour and b&w film. Night time had me pushing tri-x to 1600 due to slow lens. I am also forced to finish up the roll in my camera at the end of the day.
For casual snaps, I used my iPhone. At times, I wished I had brought along my 5D + several memory cards and a charger.
Lesson learnt: always have a back-up camera
Nonetheless, everyday I just head back to the hotel and labelled my exposed film cartridges and pack them in a zip-lock bag. No fiddling with laptops late in the night to backup photos or edit photos.
BUT... I now have a backlog of negatives to develop after the trip!!
mervynyan
Mervyn Yan
i take 2 Ms, about 50 rolls, 4 lenses, and a digital p&s. film is a joy to use, there are surprises alone the way.
Ranchu
Veteran
I had an F100, but I found AF cameras don't MF as well as MF cameras. Surprised also, to find I didn't much like most of the Nikon lenses I had as much as some others. So that went. The thing is, even if you don't change or look at the menu options, you always know you can, it occupies your mind. And the chimping, always with the chimping. I'm thinking of Raid's daughters and wife talking to him about what they're all doing and seeing and him distracted about a blown sky, or thinking how he might be able to take another angle on the fountain down the block because he didn't get what he wanted on the back of the camera. Mind occupied by the device, being somewhere else.
Bill Clark
Veteran
Film sounds good. I recommend taking everything as a carry on so as no problems with fogging film.
However, when I had to take digital stuff I don't backup any cards until I return. So no laptop for me! If I was really worried I have a camera with 2 slots for cards and can get a backup immediately. But it's a large camera so I usually don't bring it on a trip. Haven't had any issues yet.
Sounds like a nice trip.
However, when I had to take digital stuff I don't backup any cards until I return. So no laptop for me! If I was really worried I have a camera with 2 slots for cards and can get a backup immediately. But it's a large camera so I usually don't bring it on a trip. Haven't had any issues yet.
Sounds like a nice trip.
Prest_400
Multiformat
Since I saw the photos on the web of a motocyclist touring all over the world with his Pentax 67, I have fantasized a lot about MF for travel.
A close option for me to get into MF is one of the Fuji 6x9 RF's, seemingly huge but otherwise not that of a big deal. 8 shots a roll... You'd say, 645 or 6x6, but if you go big, why not go BIG? 6x6 as minimum, 6x7 up to the quasi-LF 6x9.
With 35mm travel ought to be easier but with MF... More bulk for less frames (albeit much more care put into them).
Digital has the advantage of copying, compact size if taken care of (kit + batt+ charger + cards); But for travel the deal for me is APS down to compact (settling on m43).
So above is my fantasized travel kit for a south east asia tour. I also have the feeling of not wanting to get "overlapping formats", explained as, MF does the big serious stuff and digital takes care for the snapshots.
As of Xray, last trip I did, had 7 scans and no problems at all. Singapore Changi X ray machines have a big blue "Film safe" sticker on them; nice to see.
With film I'd have the concern of the load of film to bring and if the unexposed stock is low, resupplying myself! I am a low volume shooter, so unlikely to happen but If you're in the middle of somewhere with no camera stores... Where perhaps you can only get 2 years expired 35mm kodak gold, and 120 film is something alien.
In a long trip (month +) I'd probably bring most I'd need and try to order a load to be delivered on site, about 2 weeks before maybe.
The thread has mainly talked about 35mm in travel, but what about MF and bigger formats?
A close option for me to get into MF is one of the Fuji 6x9 RF's, seemingly huge but otherwise not that of a big deal. 8 shots a roll... You'd say, 645 or 6x6, but if you go big, why not go BIG? 6x6 as minimum, 6x7 up to the quasi-LF 6x9.
With 35mm travel ought to be easier but with MF... More bulk for less frames (albeit much more care put into them).
Digital has the advantage of copying, compact size if taken care of (kit + batt+ charger + cards); But for travel the deal for me is APS down to compact (settling on m43).
So above is my fantasized travel kit for a south east asia tour
. I also have the feeling of not wanting to get "overlapping formats", explained as, MF does the big serious stuff and digital takes care for the snapshots.As of Xray, last trip I did, had 7 scans and no problems at all. Singapore Changi X ray machines have a big blue "Film safe" sticker on them; nice to see.
With film I'd have the concern of the load of film to bring and if the unexposed stock is low, resupplying myself! I am a low volume shooter, so unlikely to happen but If you're in the middle of somewhere with no camera stores... Where perhaps you can only get 2 years expired 35mm kodak gold, and 120 film is something alien.
In a long trip (month +) I'd probably bring most I'd need and try to order a load to be delivered on site, about 2 weeks before maybe.
The thread has mainly talked about 35mm in travel, but what about MF and bigger formats?