jibanes
Member
Hello,
I have to make a decision, as I intend to stay minimalist, I will get only one 50mm from these:
- Summilux 50/1.4 asph
- Noctilux 50/0.95 asph
- Summicron 50/2 asph
I own a Summilux 35/1.4, a great lens, now I need a "normal" lens, mostly for portraiture, which is something I really like. My choice would go towards the Summilux, as it's the same diameter as the 35, I would be able to reuse my filters (I shoot film: HP5+). The Noctilux is "a little big" for daily use, and might be better for cutting edge work; while the Summicron is clearly too expensive for what it really is, compared to the Summilux.
Am I getting it right or should I reconsider my choice?
I have to make a decision, as I intend to stay minimalist, I will get only one 50mm from these:
- Summilux 50/1.4 asph
- Noctilux 50/0.95 asph
- Summicron 50/2 asph
I own a Summilux 35/1.4, a great lens, now I need a "normal" lens, mostly for portraiture, which is something I really like. My choice would go towards the Summilux, as it's the same diameter as the 35, I would be able to reuse my filters (I shoot film: HP5+). The Noctilux is "a little big" for daily use, and might be better for cutting edge work; while the Summicron is clearly too expensive for what it really is, compared to the Summilux.
Am I getting it right or should I reconsider my choice?
kshapero
South Florida Man
What is your budget?
daveywaugh
Blah
Personally I'd go with the Lux - best all rounder from what I've seen (I have not used it) and nice ergonomic switch between it and the 35. Cheapest in your list too if you're considering the new Cron! ;-)
denizg7
Well-known
summicron's glass is way sharper than summilux. It's not just about aspherical speed. Easier focusing too.
jibanes
Member
I will purchase the lens I need, and only this one; assuming it's "the right one for me", pricing is important of course, but not the determining factor here. I just want to seek people more experimented than I on this matter before I get it (the Nocti and Summilux are both available at my photo store).
It's my understanding that the Summilux will provide me a quality as good as my current 35 lux 1.4 asph; the size is right and will balance well with the MP body, and durability/build is probably exceptional.
I do have an old 50 cron that has passed away, after having captured a few tens of thousand shots; a 30 years old lens which served me well, although; repairing it would be beyond its current value, I believe it's time to get another 50 I can use for at least as long.
ChrisN
Striving
I think you should review your best photos made with your old 50 cron - were many made with the lens wide open? If so, and you foresee continuing in that style, perhaps the Nocti would be right for you.
mfogiel
Veteran
For a film camera, the 50mm ASPH Cron is way overkill, in fact, for shooting on HP5+ most 50mm lenses are overkill in terms of resolution, so you might ask yourself other types of questions, like: what kind of rendering I like and how does the lens handle?
From my personal experience with 50mm RF lenses, I would say the choice should be between the 50/1.4 ASPH and pre ASPH Summilux. While the ASPH is sharper and more even across the frame, the pre ASPH renders in a less clinical way, and in my opinion would be much preferred for people shots. There are also issues like contrast ( lower contrast works better in B&W) and bokeh, and Mandler lenses are generally optimal for bokeh. If you don't mind the size ( you should try the lens before you decide) another great choice could be the old 1.0 Noctilux, which besides being an f1.0, is also very good when stopped down. If you want to satiate your thirst of razor sharp images, you can also try Planar 50/2 for a day or two: on film you will not distinguish it in terms of sharpness even from uber sharp NATO spy lenses made for satellites.
BTW, if you want to be minimalist, why an MP and not an M3? Personally, I much prefer an M7 over MP. Remember also to choose the 0.85x magnification.
Pre ASPH Summilux (this was shot at f2.8 against the light, for me it is sharp enough):
20123724 by mfogiel, on Flickr
From my personal experience with 50mm RF lenses, I would say the choice should be between the 50/1.4 ASPH and pre ASPH Summilux. While the ASPH is sharper and more even across the frame, the pre ASPH renders in a less clinical way, and in my opinion would be much preferred for people shots. There are also issues like contrast ( lower contrast works better in B&W) and bokeh, and Mandler lenses are generally optimal for bokeh. If you don't mind the size ( you should try the lens before you decide) another great choice could be the old 1.0 Noctilux, which besides being an f1.0, is also very good when stopped down. If you want to satiate your thirst of razor sharp images, you can also try Planar 50/2 for a day or two: on film you will not distinguish it in terms of sharpness even from uber sharp NATO spy lenses made for satellites.
BTW, if you want to be minimalist, why an MP and not an M3? Personally, I much prefer an M7 over MP. Remember also to choose the 0.85x magnification.
Pre ASPH Summilux (this was shot at f2.8 against the light, for me it is sharp enough):
20123724 by mfogiel, on Flickr
jibanes
Member
I do shoot mostly wide open, which isn't optimum in terms of sharpness, which may explain why I could use the extra stop. In my opinion, the Noctilux is not practical, at least for my needs, because of its inconvenient size; perhaps it is of use for bodybuilders, but not for me.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
ZM Planar 50/2.
My guess is that you will never wish for more. If you do you're out a scant few hundred bucks at worst. Second on the list would be the Summilux ASPH. For a normal-use lens, the Noctilux is absurd due to its size and weight. That is specialist glass, and if you decide to go that route you will still want the Planar for everyday use.
Unless you're shooting slow film on a tripod most of the time, the Summicron ASPH is an absurdity. You would be paying literally ten times the price of the Planar for only a marginal technical improvement and likely no artistic benefit at all.
If you want to spend money get the Summilux. It gives you that extra stop, it's not preposterously large and its performance will not disappoint.
My guess is that you will never wish for more. If you do you're out a scant few hundred bucks at worst. Second on the list would be the Summilux ASPH. For a normal-use lens, the Noctilux is absurd due to its size and weight. That is specialist glass, and if you decide to go that route you will still want the Planar for everyday use.
Unless you're shooting slow film on a tripod most of the time, the Summicron ASPH is an absurdity. You would be paying literally ten times the price of the Planar for only a marginal technical improvement and likely no artistic benefit at all.
If you want to spend money get the Summilux. It gives you that extra stop, it's not preposterously large and its performance will not disappoint.
jibanes
Member
You have perfectly addressed my concerns and question, thank you.
maddoc
... likes film again.
I soon replaced my copy of the ZM Planar 50/2.0 with a vs4 Summicron and my 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH (E46) with a Noctilux 50/1.0 and never looked back.
EDIT: Since you only want ONE 50 mm lens, I would follow mfogiel`s advice of getting the 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH (E46) version.
gilpen123
Gil
Have you considered a slower Elmar 50 2.8? I would also say Cron 50 will be a good option.
The Summicron 50 V5 handles much nicer than the Elmar-M 50/2.8. The aperture ring on my Elmar-M is so loose that it's easily moved.
My vote goes to the Summicron 50 Pre-ASPH (a.k.a. V5
). I don't want to lug anything heavier than that around and don't want to pay any more for a lens. Budget restrictions don't seem to be a concern for the OP anyway, so why not get the Summicron ASPH and be the only kid on the block with the latest and greatest
thegman
Veteran
With a choice like that, it seems your budget is not the main concern. If that were the case, I'd get the Summilux, the Noctilux is just too big, and also even you like shooting wide open, you may not like *that* wide open.
peewee
Established
I had a E39 pre asph 50 Summilux and liked it very much though not as much as I like the asph version..That was on the M9..I have a copy with a non stiff focus ring which helps.
I'd like to try the 50 Summicron with film sometime, it seems to render beautifully from what I've seen.
I'd like to try the 50 Summicron with film sometime, it seems to render beautifully from what I've seen.
mafoofan
Established
For size reasons alone, I will always have trouble imagining the Noctilux as anything but a specialty lens. Thus, I would toss it out of consideration right off the bat if you are looking for one all-around 50mm.
I agree with previous comments regarding today's top 50mm lenses out-resolving what 35mm film can capture. I use a 50mm Summilux ASPH on my MP, and I am never left wanting for sharpness. So, it's hard for me to contemplate the 50mm APO, particularly given that I would lose an f-stop versus the Summilux, which I find very useful for shooting when it gets dark. This was taken in the middle of the night at f1.4, handheld:
Plus, the increased depth of field is a very useful artistic option. Oh, and incidentally, the Summilux may be 'clinical' in its sharpness compared to older lenses and those designed by Mandler, but the bokeh is really beautiful--consistently smooth and free of edginess.
So, in short, I'd go with the Summilux. In my opinion, it is still the best all-around 50mm lens.
I agree with previous comments regarding today's top 50mm lenses out-resolving what 35mm film can capture. I use a 50mm Summilux ASPH on my MP, and I am never left wanting for sharpness. So, it's hard for me to contemplate the 50mm APO, particularly given that I would lose an f-stop versus the Summilux, which I find very useful for shooting when it gets dark. This was taken in the middle of the night at f1.4, handheld:
Plus, the increased depth of field is a very useful artistic option. Oh, and incidentally, the Summilux may be 'clinical' in its sharpness compared to older lenses and those designed by Mandler, but the bokeh is really beautiful--consistently smooth and free of edginess.
So, in short, I'd go with the Summilux. In my opinion, it is still the best all-around 50mm lens.
gilpen123
Gil
Never knew the 50 elmar has that, almost bought one.
The Summicron 50 V5 handles much nicer than the Elmar-M 50/2.8. The aperture ring on my Elmar-M is so loose that it's easily moved.
My vote goes to the Summicron 50 Pre-ASPH (a.k.a. V5
Budget restrictions don't seem to be a concern for the OP anyway, so why not get the Summicron ASPH and be the only kid on the block with the latest and greatest
filmfan
Well-known
For BW, the best 50mm is the latest pre-asph 50mm summilux. No question.
mfogiel
Veteran
I'd like to add one consideration, if you are going to be really concentrated on shooting this 50mm lens in portaiture mode, so mainly in the range 1.2-1.7 meters and often wide open.
I have just bought some lenses for pure portraiture work, and I have chosen the 75-135mm range. I am very sensitive to the OOF rendering, but this is not to say I am a bokeh freak - simply I'd like to get the best possible pictorial effect from the in and out of focus passage, plus non distracting, possibly round rendering of specular highlights. The problem is, the best bokeh comes from shooting lenses wide open, this way, you eliminate the imprint of the aperture blades, which can be quite a nuisance.
Another problem is, that I not always want to shoot at the same aperture, so I have 50mm lenses ranging from f1.2 to f 2.8, and similarly, 75-135mm lenses ranging from f1.4 to f 4.5. You might consider getting the Elmar-M (2.8), Summicron or Planar (f2.0), Summilux (ASPH or not - f 1.4) and even a Noctilux (f 1.0).
The wide open rendering is going to be quite different and useful for different applications. At this point I would definitely add the C Sonnar (f1.5), optimized for wide open, as it is possibly the best portrait 50mm lens ever made.
Take a look at these photos:
Noctilux
http://www.flickr.com/photos/86176478@N00/5389133726/
Summilux ASPH
http://www.flickr.com/photos/christoph_z/7165404453/
Summilux pre ASPH (this shot is slightly blurred, as she moved at 1/30th)
20124424 by mfogiel, on Flickr
C Sonnar:
F 1,5 by mfogiel, on Flickr
Planar
COFFEE by mfogiel, on Flickr
Elmar M
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ant_1/6690519573/
I have just bought some lenses for pure portraiture work, and I have chosen the 75-135mm range. I am very sensitive to the OOF rendering, but this is not to say I am a bokeh freak - simply I'd like to get the best possible pictorial effect from the in and out of focus passage, plus non distracting, possibly round rendering of specular highlights. The problem is, the best bokeh comes from shooting lenses wide open, this way, you eliminate the imprint of the aperture blades, which can be quite a nuisance.
Another problem is, that I not always want to shoot at the same aperture, so I have 50mm lenses ranging from f1.2 to f 2.8, and similarly, 75-135mm lenses ranging from f1.4 to f 4.5. You might consider getting the Elmar-M (2.8), Summicron or Planar (f2.0), Summilux (ASPH or not - f 1.4) and even a Noctilux (f 1.0).
The wide open rendering is going to be quite different and useful for different applications. At this point I would definitely add the C Sonnar (f1.5), optimized for wide open, as it is possibly the best portrait 50mm lens ever made.
Take a look at these photos:
Noctilux
http://www.flickr.com/photos/86176478@N00/5389133726/
Summilux ASPH
http://www.flickr.com/photos/christoph_z/7165404453/
Summilux pre ASPH (this shot is slightly blurred, as she moved at 1/30th)
20124424 by mfogiel, on Flickr
C Sonnar:
F 1,5 by mfogiel, on Flickr
Planar
COFFEE by mfogiel, on Flickr
Elmar M
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ant_1/6690519573/
umcelinho
Marcelo
i havent owned any of the 3 options, but have used "similar" lenses: canon 50/0.95 (background melter, huge/heavy), dr cron (smaller, more "perfect-ish" lens) and 50/1.5 nokton (bit bigger than the cron, but extra stop).
0.95: the speed is really nice to have available, but unless your idea is to shoot a lot in low light situations, it's a pretty heavy lens to lug around, and that might keep you from actually using it.
cron: smallest option, great image quality and no aberrations but you have to factor that vs the max aperture
lux: best compromise between speed, size/weight and performance
0.95: the speed is really nice to have available, but unless your idea is to shoot a lot in low light situations, it's a pretty heavy lens to lug around, and that might keep you from actually using it.
cron: smallest option, great image quality and no aberrations but you have to factor that vs the max aperture
lux: best compromise between speed, size/weight and performance