Film RF for architecture?

Tuomas Xi

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Having been shooting RAW with an entry-level Canon DSLR for the last couple of years, with fairly thorough digital PP and DAM procedures, I feel that moving to a half-film-half-digital workflow could be interesting. I've got some ideas and questions below, and I'd really appreciate if anyone with some experience or views on any of this could give a comment.
  1. I shoot mostly modern architecture for personal use and for fun. I travel a bit, and visiting interesting buildings and spaces is often the main motivation for going on a trip in the first place. I've appreciated the small size and lightness of my DSLR from this point of view, even though I'm ready to lug more weight around with me as well. Recently I've been using a Slik Pro 500 tripod+ a pan head, and spirit level on the trips.
  2. Workflow
    Shoot film, scan, do digital PP and apply digital asset management to saving and archiving the results? Sounds OK to me otherwise, but there would be the issue of managing the archiving and organising the negatives or slides too, which is double work then. However, on a typical trip I shoot some 1000-2000 frames with my DSLR, just because it's possible and to make sure i get at least some photos that are bearable to look at. Even though I've made the PP and DAM things quite efficient and automated in Adobe Camera Raw, iView Mediapro and Photoshop, it still takes a lot of time to rank and edit so many files. With film this would be very different to start with, and this is something I feel strongly about: the process of shooting film would perhaps force me to work more carefully when actually shooting and it would also let me concentrate more on polishing the results in the PP stage and make it easier and quicker to organise and archive the results. All this sounds like an attractive way of doing photography to me. This touches also on the subject of the camera: for example is it easy to compose the image through the viewfinder (it's awfully small and dim in my current DSLR) , the ease of use etc. Of course, I could just try to be more disciplined and restrained when shooting with my DSLR, but...
  3. Zeiss Ikon vs. Mamiya 7 II vs. other MF cameras:
    • ZI with the 18mm Distagon+external viewfinder or the 21mm f/2.8 Biogon+external VF seems like a very attractive 35 mm RF set for my purposes: small, light, high quality, almost reasonably priced in some parts of the world. It would possibly leave the door open to digital RF in the future as well, if such cameras continue to be produced after the M8 (and if I'd get rich).
    • I've seen some drum scanned images shot with a Mamiya 7 II + N80 lens and the results were just amazing, especially to a crop-sensor-DSLR user like me. As this is a reasonably portable camera, it seems like a good choice as well, except for the fact that the Zeiss ZM line of lenses offers 15 and 18 mm lenses, whereas the shortest equivalent for Mamiya 7 II is 21 mm (the N43 lens). For some reason I'm a bit skeptical about tilt/shift-lenses on sub-LF cameras, but that's absolutely down to the fact that I've never used them, or read about the subject adequately. I just have a feeling that they work best on large format equipment?
    • How about some non-RF MF cameras? They would offer the advantage of high quality scanned results together with more accurate viewfinders than those used in RF cameras perhaps?
Well, that's a lot of rambling, but I hope somebody would comment these thoughts somehow. It's kind of hard nowadays to find people who have experience on moving to film-based RF or MF workflow...

Regards,
 
Well, the ultimate film camera with RF-coupled lenses for architecture must be the Linhof Master Technika... You can use it as fast as a press camera, or as slow as a view camera.
 
I'd agree with MHV, a crown graphic would be another good choice (RF or View). They only reason I would not go with a 7II is I think there is a wider range of lenses for a 4x5 camera. I think you can get a roll film back that will rotate and give you a really wide frame if you do not want to go down the sheet film road.

B2 (;->
 
Alpa 12 S/WA (serious money) -- my wife uses a 35mm Apo-Grandagon on 6x9cm.

Or, as already mentioned, a 'baby' Linhpof, except that you don't get useful rise with wide-angles.

We also have a custom adapter to allow a Nikon PC-Nikkor to be used on Leicas...

EDIT: Personally, I wouldn't touch a Graphic or other press camera. You'll find that people either love them or can't see the point. I'm in the latter class: I'd rather have a camera with more movements (Linhof, MPP Micro-Technical...). You can of course put roll-film backs on 4x5 cameras.

Cheers,

R.
 
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As others have mentioned, if architecture is your passion - something that allows very wide lenses, with movements is the way to go.

I use a Horseman VH-R for travel. I has rollfilm back for 6x7 and 6x9, allows for some movements (albeit, not with the widest lenses - same problem as with the baby Linhof), and can be RF coupled for faster operation if you wish.
 
Roger the 6x9 back, is it for roll film? If so what camera is she using with the Grandagon? LoL.. obviously not a Graflex press camera.
Dear Jan,

Her Alpa 12 S/WA... The back is an Alpa-modified Linhof. Alpas take their own Linhof-based backs or (via adapters) Mamiya RB, Horseman, Hasselblad and most digital. I've not tried Mamiya-press or Graflex backs on 'em.

Cheers,

Roger
 
The back is an Alpa-modified Linhof. Alpas take their own Linhof-based backs or (via adapters) Mamiya RB, Horseman, Hasselblad and most digital.

Little correction: Alpa's dont take Hasselblad backs, these require film transport from the camera body. The (analog) Hasselblad adapter is only for accessories (viewfinders).
Additionally to the modified Linhofs there is a new, motorized 6x9 back made by Mamiya. It takes 120 and 220 film, film flatness is perfect, at least on par with the Linhofs.
 
Little correction: Alpa's dont take Hasselblad backs, these require film transport from the camera body. The (analog) Hasselblad adapter is only for accessories (viewfinders).
Additionally to the modified Linhofs there is a new, motorized 6x9 back made by Mamiya. It takes 120 and 220 film, film flatness is perfect, at least on par with the Linhofs.
Thanks for the reminder. Of course you are right, as a moment's thought on my part would have revealed. I must have been thinking of Hasselblad-compatible digital backs -- you can fit those, I believe?

Can you post more detail about the motorized Mamiya 6x9 back?

See you at photokina?

Cheers,

Roger
 
OT but in some ways On Topic.. I've a friend who is a reasonably serious photographer. He loaned me some 4x5 equipment and then asked what I intended to use it for. I told him I wanted to do some architectural material.

He looked over his coffee and said he understood all about the issues of perspective control needed and understood why I wanted to use a view camera for architecture

" ... but" he said "why don't you just use perspective correction in CS3?"

I then went on about all the reasons which I'm sure he knew 20 years back and he nodded and told me to have fun.

To the point is there any significant reason not to use a camera without the movements and then adjust the image in the scanning and image manipulating / editing processes with CS3

This might be one solution for Tuomas initial inquiry
 
To the point is there any significant reason not to use a camera without the movements and then adjust the image in the scanning and image manipulating / editing processes with CS3

If it's a question of pure image quality... then yes. There is no way to make corrections in cs3 without throwing away information, or interpolating data.

There also is not an effective way to mimic shifting or some of the other focal plane manipulations a view camera allows.

But it all comes down to need. And that's something only the OP can decide.
 
the little cheap Bessa L with a 12mm great indoors, but as Jan says PC in photoshop

a few where I got lucky with the exposure
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2427008093_350c1cb8ff_b.jpg


2427826880_0256f03ea5_b.jpg


2346501606_77e197946a_b.jpg



link
 
If it's a question of pure image quality... then yes. There is no way to make corrections in cs3 without throwing away information, or interpolating data.

There also is not an effective way to mimic shifting or some of the other focal plane manipulations a view camera allows.

But it all comes down to need. And that's something only the OP can decide.

For the last: no question. You're right.

For the second: not convinced, at least for perspective 'correction' (though you often need a vertical stretch to compensate -- cf the architectural techniques of 'stretching' perspective with figures at the top of tall columns).

For the first: strictly you're right but cf 2 above.

Cheers,

R.
 
Thanks for the reminder. Of course you are right, as a moment's thought on my part would have revealed. I must have been thinking of Hasselblad-compatible digital backs -- you can fit those, I believe?

Can you post more detail about the motorized Mamiya 6x9 back?

See you at photokina?

Cheers,

Roger

Hi Roger.

There are adapters for digital Hasselblad backs, both H and V mount.

Here you can find all information about the new back:
http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=p...pa_roll_film_backs&tablepage=2&detailpage=268

It is a cooperation between Mamiya and Alpa. Basis is the "old" RB back, but the construction was changed to cover full 6x9 format and being fully RoHS-compliant (RoHS = Restrictions on Hazardous Substances valid within the European Union). Because no adapter is required the construction is much more solid and precise.
I work with it since several months, very comfortable and fast.

I'll be at the Photokina full time. See you there 🙂

Regards
Stephan
 
First of all, thanks for everybody here for taking notice and sharing their views! I must say that the replies gave me really a lot to think about this whole thing: why do I shoot architecture, is certain kind of equipment overkill for me or not, what kind of quality would I like etc.etc.etc. Next I'll do some Google research on large format cameras, and read the Ansel Adams books again.

Stewart,
Thanks for sharing the shots! I've actually never seen architecture shot with a film RF camera before, and I like what you've done. Very nice tones, I especially like the roofscape shot. Also, thanks for bringing up the Voigtländer as one possibility, I'll look into that.
 
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