Carl Zeiss LTM Finally! ~ I bought a "wartime" 1943 CZJ Sonnar T f1.5/50 in LTM

[Pirate]

And, I just got the body also, so I have no other rolls through it to say which it is or is not.

 

[menos]

Hmmm... It's possibly the shutter curtain. That thought did not even cross my mind. One of the curtains is wrinkled but did not look to be leaking - but of course I can't see through it because it's not an M with a back door.

And Yes, every frame is like this.

I'm going to get the curtains replaced and retest it. If I had my digi here I'd take pics of the curtain and the bubbles in the lens, but it's loaned to a friend for a while.

Thanks johanniels!

You could use a strobe, build a snoot, that leads the light from the flash only into the body of the camera through the open bottom and watch the shutter curtain from front, if any light leaks.

Dirk,

Little chance that these lenses contain amything other than true Zeiss optics and a true Cook & Perkins mount.

First, both do not resemble Russian lenses. The prewar Contax stuff is either uncoated, or nickel, or both. The Cook & Perkins mount is indeed made from brass and has very fine engravings, thats not easily copied either.

Second, a mount like this (and a prewar Zeiss cell too?) is not that easily found so there's little chance someone used one to mount a Russian optical block in it.

Raid, that thread seems still-born, conversions were discussed here as well, although the difference between real and fake Sonnars was more of a focus point.

Thanks a lot for that updated info Johan! I am not checking so often into RFF these days ;-)

The lens obviously sold. I figure some collector reads RFF and sprung for it (the price was not much higher than genuine advertised CZJ LTMs are for sale around here).

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Definitely light leaks caused by pinholes in the shutter curtain.

 

[Pirate]

A real Leica Sonnar? That's awesome times ten! Congrats on that one.

My 1950 IIIc with the CZJ Sonnar 50 are with Youxin for new shutter curtains and CLA, along with my 1939 II and 1939 Summitar to match them together for perfect focusing.

Can't wait to get shooting with these two!

 

[johannielscom]

Thanks Stephen, that does sound viable indeed. It had not occured to me that the lens mount of the Zeiss lenses could be considered copied, making the move a logical one.

Regarding the possible copying of the Contax mount by Leitz, IIRC there was a Zeiss official put in charge of the production of optical devices for the military. The military staff (both German and abroad, before the trade embargo against nazi Germany) expressed a preference for the more simple Leica design, both in shutter and lens mount.

The Zeiss official responded to that by issuing the order for lenses to Zeiss, so his company would not be side-tracked altogether.

IIRC Mrc James Small wrote this in one of his posts during his brief presence on RFF.

 

[jnswickard]

Pinholes in shutter curtain?

Pinholes in shutter curtain?

Ok, so I finally got home last night and got to hold my "new" Sonnar in my hands. Today I ran a roll of plain old Fujicolor C-41 200 ISO film through the IIIc with this lens and had it developed at a local pharmacy. Did the scans myself. Looking at the front of the glass it has a multi coating. Looking at the rear element I see some bubbles in the glass. Not a good first impression. Upon viewing the film, it's really not good. I need to know if I can get it rebuilt with a different rear element put into it, or if the lens is a total loss. I'm pretty sure I got suckered on buying this one, but if it's repairable, it would be worth it.

Here are scans from today at a car show:

Could this be pinholes in the shutter curtain?

 

[Dez]

It certainly seems to be pinholes. The spots tend to be in the same places. I see no indication of any problems with the lens in these pictures. Small bubbles in the glass are common with old Zeiss lenses, and seem to have little or no impact on the image quality.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[S.H.]

Hello,

slightly off topic, but I just snagged a converted postwar Jena Sonnar f2. Serial says it is from a Contax mount batch. It was too costly at first, but seller readily accepted my offer (more than 25% off, should have gone lower?). The glass looks very nice. Here are the pictures from a well known auction site:


Note: the body is a soviet ltm belonging to the seller, just here for show. That is why the index does not sit at 12.


I find it interesting, because I have a LTM Sonnar 1.5 with the same type of conversion, which I have rarely seen : the RF cam screws into the barrel, it is not smooth like in a Jupiter for example.

 

[Pirate]

Pinholed curtains are gone. Got the cameras back in great shape - but the 1939 II with the 1939 Summitar I'm still a little leary of... ran a test roll through it and nothing is in focus, so, that may go to DAG for furthar work as suggested by Youxin.

The 1950 with the CZJ Sonnar 1.5 test roll came out ok but I wasn't thrilled with it. After running a second roll through it and taking more time and patience to get the shot, I'm very impressed and loving it. Here are a couple from Sunday:

I also did a focus test at the closest focusing distance with the Sonnar. Went from 1.5 to 8. At 1.5 it was still sharp at the focus point but a back-focus could easily be seen, and it was gone by 2.8 so I shouldn't have any trouble with this lens.

 

[Pirate]

Oh, and I picked up 6 brass reloadable film canisters, the Z cans. They are awesome!! No more shots on the sprocket holes!

 

[johannielscom]

Pirate,

seems you got bitten by the Barnack bug big time 😀

The FILCA cassettes are great and very sturdy.

Sounds as if your Sonnar is a fine specimen of the lens too. They can be optimized for shooting wide open and close up, and then will let increased DOF cover the focus shift when you focus further away.
Or, practise until you know how far to move back when shooting close up and wide open, I did that with a Jupiter-3 for quite some time and it worked fine most of the time.

Happy shooting!

 

[Pirate]

I shot a focus test for it wide open at the closest distance. Just a little back-focus until 2.8 so It's just fine. I need to do a focus test with something big like the side of a brick building at different apertures and distances so I can verify it.

But yes, I love these Barnacks. I am even looking at a 1936 model, but I'm gun-shy....

 

[thompsonks]

Indeed – I have a 1938 Sonnar that he converted to LTM, and it's a charmer. Congratulations on yours!

Some images with mine:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thompsonkirk/sets/72157632143292558/

 

[Ernst Dinkla]

Why would the more numerous LTM lenses be in more demand for the war effort than Zeiss Contax mount lenses? The Leica factory was not bombed or damaged. Perhaps the Zeiss optics were preferred by the Germany military ?

Stephen

I estimate that till the sixties Zeiss optics were preferred above Leitz optics by anyone, including HCB.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

 

[menos]

Now THAT is an interesting lens - would love to see some photos done with the lens Tom!

 

[mynikonf2]

Tom,

Congrats on finding this fantastic early war period Zeiss 85. I do believe you've been looking for one of these 85's for some
time now, [starting that quest well before the traumatic "Bug" bite you received. 🙁 😀😀] Anyway, good to see that a steady diet of "Beetle Juice" 😀 has not affected your skill at finding scarce & rare wartime cameras & glass and that you're not totally cured of G.A.S., either!! 😱 😀😀😀😎

 

[Jacques M.]

Beautiful! Congrats!
The Thiele says it was delivered the 19/08/41, initially with a Contax mount. But in those wartime years...

Perfect mounted on your IIIc K!

Jacques.

 

[ianstamatic]

Yes I was wondering why no one had mentioned a Summarit here yet !! aka coated xenon aka i like my summarit better than a sonnar, probably for similar reasons people like their sonnars, very versitile and also capable of bitingly sharp images stopped down suitably

summarit 50/1.5 @2.8

 

[ianstamatic]

and one wide open @1.5

 

[Jan Pedersen]

Glad you unlocked the archives, these are awesome. Don't touch that dial.