Carl Zeiss LTM Finally! ~ I bought a "wartime" 1943 CZJ Sonnar T f1.5/50 in LTM

[menos]

Tom, I would not mind you opening the archives more often and sharing more old and new photographs, made with CZJ Sonnar lenses.

How did your 85/2 CZJ turn out - any photographs to share yet?

Today I finally, finally received my very own first CZJ 50mm - thanks to John, parting with his lens. It took me a long time to find one, now I cannot wait to work on the lens, doing the focus mount and adjusting it for wide open use on a digital M.

Look at the compact size of the 50/1.5 Sonnar, compared to my current favourite 50 - these CZJ lenses are tiny with their 40.5 filter size !

I have a question for the experts:

What would be a contemporary correct lens hood for this lens?

I am also curious about any specific info anyone could share by the looks of this sample!

I am all bitten by the Sonnar bug for good!

@ Johan - I admit it is time now time to start to work on that 85/2 ;-)

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Ah, so it went to you, Menos. Congratulations 🙂

 

[menos]

Ah, so it went to you, Menos. Congratulations 🙂

Thanks Rick - it was a long journey finding a 50 CZJ that would want me ;-)

I just finished the focus mount.
I wish, I could find words to describe what a thing of beauty the construction is. It is astonishing, how well made the helicoid sleeves are. Some of the prewar Leitz lenses are rough in comparison. No shortcuts were taken here. The ageing of the wartime alloy really does not represent well, what is inside these lenses and quite disguises the beauty within (coming from a person, who can appreciate fine metal work).

For what it's worth, I found matching engraved helicoid serial numbers.
Could anybody in the know lead me to an idea, what they represent?

 

[john neal]

Dirk,

Stop now - please! You know what a wrench it was to sell that lens and you just go on making it worse 😉

Lovely machining in there though, isn't it?

 

[menos]

Haha John, I didn't meant to.
I had the lens this morning the first time on the camera:

Mono + 50/1.5 CZJ T + 022 yellow filter

50 f1.5 Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar LTM - first shots - bus by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

I hope to find some time with it coming weekend …
Until then I also should have finished (finally) a 80/2 to match ;-)

I am still thinking, which 35mm from the vault would fit best to fill a three lens kit - an uncoated 35 Elmar (too soft ?) or one of the black Canon 35/2 LTMs I have for ages (too contrasty?), or simply a pre ASPH Summilux - one still to do, now that I found a really nice, light LTPE grease.

 

[Jacques M.]

Hi Menos!

This is a special Zeiss number made by the factory on the rangefinder parts of Sonnars and Biogons.
I have a number too on a 2/5cm Sonnar, and even on a 1,5/5cm ZK. But I have not dismounted the other LTM Sonnars I have: I don't dare...

Amitiés. Jacques.

 

[CameraQuest]

Finally! ~ I bought a "wartime" 1943 CZJ Sonnar T f1.5/50 in LTM

Post your wartime Zeiss LTM lenses here.

LeicaTom the OP deleted this thread.

I restored it, without LeicaTom's posts.

Much valuable info still remains.

Stephen

 

[raid]

Thank you Stephen. It should be clear to all OP's that they do not own that thread once others post their input. We all make mistakes.

 

[menos]

Thanks for saving the thread Stephen!
Lets share some more insight and discussions about those beautiful Sonnars ;-)

 

[Jacques M.]

Thank you Stephen. It should be clear to all OP's that they do not own that thread once others post their input. We all make mistakes.

Completely OK with Raid's remark.
Thanks, Stephen!

Jacques.

 

[raid]

Tom must have deleted his first post. Now, we have back this nice thread.

 

[menos]

On a tone with the thread - Does anyone have some detailed information about genuine 8.5cm f2 Sonnar LTM lenses in aluminium barrel out of CZJ ?

How many were made?
I saw only one in the flesh all these years (still hitting myself not buying it).

 

[Jacques M.]

It seems none was officially made by the Thiele listings.

Jacques.

 

[Jacques M.]

And out of CZJ, I think it is impossible to know.
We don't know how many Sonnars KMZ received, nor how they re numbered them.

All we can say is that around 4000 of the bayonet 2/8.5cm Sonnars (for Contax) were produced by CZJ at the end of the war and before the s/n 3000000. Many of them could have been converted. As for me, I own the s/n 2850958 delivered the 2/6/46 by CZJ (s/n KMZ: 5000135, so 1950).

I am going to prepare a thread on USSRphoto concerning this very question (extended to other Sonnars and Biogon). But as we have no listing from KMZ. Perhaps a collector has studied the question?

Jacques.

 

[menos]

So officially only pre war LTM 8.5cm Sonnars do exist?
I have followed loosely offerings over the last few years of LTM 85 Sonnars and they seem to exist in manifold forms (too many for the uninitiated to judge genuine form tempered with).

What (apart from finding a Jupiter mount converted Contax lens) would be most likely to find as a genuine 8.5cm LTM Sonnar?

Are the heavy brass pre war lenses scarce as well?
Is a 1945-49 Russian lens my only hope?

 

[Red Robin]

And out of CZJ, I think it is impossible to know.
We don't know how many Sonnars KMZ received, nor how they re numbered them.

All we can say is that around 4000 of the bayonet 2/8.5cm Sonnars (for Contax) were produced by CZJ at the end of the war and before the s/n 3000000. Many of them could have been converted. As for me, I own the s/n 2850958 delivered the 2/6/46 by CZJ (s/n KMZ: 5000135, so 1950).

I am going to prepare a thread on USSRphoto concerning this very question (extended to other Sonnars and Biogon). But as we have no listing from KMZ. Perhaps a collector has studied the question?

Jacques.

My CZJ seems to have missed the war (Parts maybe?) with a s/n of nr.2860446 All seems to work well but the aperture numbers don't line up correctly. Someone must have taken it apart and like me didn't know how to reassemble it. Lives on my Bessa R.

 

[Jacques M.]

Certainly some genuine LTM 2/8.5cm Sonnars were made by CZJ to put on Leicas during WW2: Zeiss lenses were better that Leitz ones. But the official Zeiss listings do not mention any of these lenses.
In 1946, CZJ made several batches of LTM lenses for the Russians, but there was no 2/8,5cm.

As for your s/n 2860446, Red, it is registered as a... bayonet Sonnar 1,5/5cm delivered in december 1945. All that to say that I don't think that the type of LTM Sonnar 2/8,5cm made-by-the factory really exists.

Jacques.

 

[menos]

Thank you very much Jaques for the info - this paints a bleak picture to anyone looking for a genuine sample.

I am still in hopes to find a sample that pairs well with a wartime 50/1.5. The search continues …

 

[Jacques M.]

Cameraquest articles are very useful, and not only for Zeiss items. Thanks specially to Stephen.

The war time Sonnar you speak of has the s/n 2707147. No doubt it was made by the factory. But the official datas only say that it belongs to a batch delivered in november 1942, made for Arriflex...

These datas were restored by Hartmut Thiele from original documents of the factory. There are holes in these datas when the official records were detroyed and probably many détails are missing for this reason. If we add the fact that very few of these 2/8,5cm LTM Sonnars were made by the factory, I think it is probably impossible to find THE original type.

Anyway, original or not, these Sonnars are really gems and give astounding results.... if they are correctly shimmed. By the way, I have just received a Jupiter 12 /Biogon in perfect condition, but not shimmed at all....

Jacques.

 

[ray*j*gun]

I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere in the 28 pages of this thread but who would be a good choice to shim or correct the shim on these lenses?

Thanks.