First M and about to buy a 35mm lens

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shango

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Hey all, I've been lurking here for quite awhile. I've finally purchased my first rangefinder, a Wetzler made M6 classic. Next step is to purchase a 35mm lens
as this is the focal length I prefer for my photography.

I've seen the various threads comparing V4 Summicrons to ASPH Summicrons to Biogons. In the end they all get praise for one quality or another.
For me price is a big factor. I'm not going to be purchasing a Summicron ASPH anytime soon. I'm probably going to purchase a Biogon becaue of price and the great qualities of this lens.

I have however found a near mint Summicron V4 for approx $1300. Is that a typical price for this lens these days? Is a brand new $850. biogon still a better deal?
or am I missing something?

It's been said that due to the size of the biogon, there is some degree of intrusion into the 35mm framelines. I'm planning on using this lens with a hood. Am I gonna curse myself for not going smaller?

Really, how much bigger is the Biogon, are we talking 5mm or 25mm? I can't find the dimensional specs on that older lens. I'm not used to the leica framelines yet as I have no lens, so I must ask. Is this intrusion an issue for some? Has anyone cursed their biogon and moaned "Why didn't I buy that damned Summicron?

I'm going to do some shopping tomorrow and look at both of these lenses. But I'm curious to hear more feedback from users of the Biogon. Just to get a bit more info before I shell out nearly a grand.

Thx
 
What about hanging loose for a while and getting a CV 40/1.4 or a 35/2.5 to tide you over till you can do some research. A grand is a whole lot of money and till you can mount a ZI and see what it looks like I would not do it.

I have a 'Cron and love it. She is small, sharp and has served me well. Lots of great images came through her. I've moved to the 40/1.4 because of the speed (1 full stop more) and size (just a hair bigger). It has a different look, but to me, it's a very good one.

B2
 
I just did the same thing recently, aquired a Leica body, and yes there is a moment of readjustment from using other rangefinders to the Leica bodies. However, I already had some CV glass, and so I had something to use with it when I got it.
For me, I originally planned to get Leica optics for use on my Bessa but it happened the other way around.
I have been using a 15mm lens which Leica doesnt make so there isnt any comparisons to make, a 28mm Ultron, which is directly comparable to the Summicron 28mm leica which is fairly "flat" in that it isnt as punchy as the Ultron which is sharp and punchy (punchyness has the apearance of making lenses look sharper then they actually are, so bear that in mind). I have the 40mm f1.4 Single coated lens, and I find it a little too tight for my kind of shooting, plus its a single coated lens and that really shows when shooting color slide -very unnatractive, and very unnatractive at 1.4 also. Build quality is just not there. I also have the Nokton 50mm f1.5 which is a lovely lens, just outstanding, much nicer look to the images from it then from a pre-asph Summilux 50mm which I found to be totally unnacceptable -I dont hold any romance for that "leica glow" which is in my opinion people justifying its shortfalls just because its a fancy leica lens. The Nokton 50 is marginally worse then the ASPH Summilux 50mm when doing side by side tests or comparisson pictures, however for the rest of us, and the rest of our pictures there is absolutely no deiscernable difference between the two image wise. Build quality is considerably better on the leica, heavier, smoother, built in hood, etc, if feel is as important to you as functionality then the leica is better.
Steer clear of those newer voigtlander lenses, but their Ultron 28, Nokton 35f1.2 Nokton f1.7 and Nokton 50f1.5 are outstanding. The Zeiss lenses of the same focal lengther are crisp, contrasty, and perform better stopped down then the Leica ones do, but the Leicas are built to perform at their pique wide open, which they do extrememly well and are comparable to nothing else in small format photography.
Buy a Nokton 35f1.7 to tide you over, and if you still need to have a Summicron later on when you have saved up enough, then by all means go for it.
 
My take on the Biogon 35

My take on the Biogon 35

I was in a similar position recently. Finally I went for the Biogon 2.0/35. Picturewise / qualitywise I can't really say something profound yet, so I leave that to the expects :D .
In my environment it is really difficult to locally buy used M Leica equipment, which I then can try out before the purchase. Given that and the common read, that the Zeiss lenses are usually considered to be equal (at least) to their respective Leica lenses of the last generation, I think they really compare well.
For me, taking pictures is also somewhat a haptic experience with the equipment. The Biogon satisfies my need here easily, with exception of the quite flimsy lens cap. I got over it. The Biogon is by no means a large lens. It feels right for me and I love photographing with it.

Cheers
Ivo
 
The obvious course is to got to a shop and look through the finder with a hooded Biogon mounted. What Ivo says should be reassuring.
 
I've owned a couple of different Summicrons...I currently have the Asph, but I think if I were going to buy one today, after reading Tom A's comments and seeing many pics taken with the Biogon ZM, I'd go with one of those. Do a search in the archives here for posts by Tom A with Biogon in the message text and see what you think.

Warning, many Leica lens prices seem to be heading up quickly right now, and the <50mm lenses are leading the way.
 
Also do a search here for a size comparison of various 35mm lenses it is an extensive thread and is recent.
 
I picked up a Biogon for just over $600 - new - in Tokyo 2 weeks ago (Map Camera), and I must say I could hardly be happier. It is a formidable lens, even wide open, thank you. I don't think there's any performance argument for a Leica lens at this length. The only real objection in Leica's favor IMHO is size, and I haven't found the Zeiss's size to be a problem.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aglimpseoftheworld/1404272487/
 
Thank you all for your replies and great suggestions. I'll let you know what I end up buying in the next couple of days.
 
I just picked up a V.4 summicron (black) for just under 1,100 at the big auction house. It was just under mint, but did not come with a box. It did have a hood, though.

So far I love the lens. Fantastic size for a walk-around lens. And I love the images I've been shooting with it. I know the biogon has a lot of supporters on this forum.
I used one briefly, but just never warmed to it. Still, I am sure it is a great lens.

One thing someone said that I have to disagree with. I absolutely love the 50 pre-asph summilux. Certainly it has a very different look than a nokton 50, which I spent a lot of time with last year. Particularly if you like to shoot black and white, the pre-asph lux has a very pleasant way of drawing.
(I'm trying to decide now whether I keep the lux or go with an old 50 cron rigid. Both can be used to create very nice images.)

Sean Reid has written some interesting articles on his review site regarding the performances of modern lenses and older lenses. I'm not going to spend a lot of time araphrasing him here, but I would suggest giving some thought to some of those old lenses and the different things they are capable of doing.
 
Whao - I've just spent a few minutes scrolling through many of your images and it really is a roller coaster of emotions - so many people with such hardship imprinted on their character. Lovely mix of colour and B+W images. Thank you for posting. Peter
 
Summicron c

Summicron c

Hello:

A Summicron c would be a great starter* lens IMHO. Best of light to you.

yours
FPJ

* But not if this is your first use of a range finder camera.
 
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Shango, if the quality/price ratio is important, the lens to get is the CV 35/2,5, if the absolute quality is important, the lens to get is the Biogon 35/2, if the low light capability is important, the lens to get is the CV 35/1.2, if the name on the lens is important, get any Leica lens.
 
$1300 is about right in the current market for the 35mm summicron IV. I have seen it go for $1600 on ebay and someone here posted a sale of the lens in (12/07) Europe at $2250 US. The IV is the gold standard. The other lenses are excellent. The price is dictated by condition, too. A 35mm summicron III will run to $900+. At dealers the IV do not last long. Good luck & let us know the outcome and you opinion of the lens that you purchased. Feedback is always good.
 
Whenever I am interested in a specific lens performance I go to Flickr and use the tag and check what has been done with it. Try "Zeiss Biogon 35mm f2.0" and "Leica Summicron 35mm f2.0 IV" or "Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f1.4 MC" . You can even see different shots by substituting the MC for SC versions.
Reading tests is fun, but I dont trust anyone elses opinion about a camera or lens. We all shoot differently and the end result is dictated more by the user than the equipment!
 
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