First purchase of a Sony A7 series camera - A Sony A7s

[sebastel]

well, i can contribute another one.

originally i had planned to use my A7 only with manual lenses, like takumars, rokkors and the like. in order to shorten the reaction time on pressing the release button, i had switched off the autofocus activation. (side remark: it shortens the reaction time, but not by much)

now one day i saw a nice offer on a 50mm sony FE lens, and i entered the shop to try it out. human being i am, i had forgotten the setting, and wondered why the lens would not autofocus. ran the menu up and down, didn't find anything suspicious. didn't buy that lens, then. months later, i gave in and ordered the 55mm. (very nice one, btw). after it arrived, it took me about 2 hours to finally rediscover the setting for the autofocus activation, enabled it, and everything was fine.

why i didn't find it in the first place? and then, why did it take that long? simply, because it was not located among all other autofocus settings.

i saw similar "funny" stuff elsewhere ("silent mode" in fuji cameras disables the flash?), but sony tops it. even the much discussed olympus menus are more comprehensive.

cheers.

 

[Ricoh]

well, i can contribute another one.

originally i had planned to use my A7 only with manual lenses, like takumars, rokkors and the like. in order to shorten the reaction time on pressing the release button, i had switched off the autofocus activation. (side remark: it shortens the reaction time, but not by much)

now one day i saw a nice offer on a 50mm sony FE lens, and i entered the shop to try it out. human being i am, i had forgotten the setting, and wondered why the lens would not autofocus. ran the menu up and down, didn't find anything suspicious. didn't buy that lens, then. months later, i gave in and ordered the 55mm. (very nice one, btw). after it arrived, it took me about 2 hours to finally rediscover the setting for the autofocus activation, enabled it, and everything was fine.

why i didn't find it in the first place? and then, why did it take that long? simply, because it was not located among all other autofocus settings.

i saw similar "funny" stuff elsewhere ("silent mode" in fuji cameras disables the flash?), but sony tops it. even the much discussed olympus menus are more comprehensive.

cheers.

If Sony menu design makes Olympus look and operate like being well thought out and logical (I know you didn’t actually say that) then it says something - move along, maybe? One of the attributes of the Leica digital rangefinder is the ease and speed of focus, and the simple to use and understanding menu system.

 

[peterm1]

Can I join the party?
All this talk here has reignited my interest.
I’m a Leica RF user, primarily, but also Nikon and Pentax SLR. As such I have an array of lenses. When I get bored I start looking / researching mirrorless cameras as a surrogate for my manual focus warehouse-full....
I’m torn between the Nikon Z6 and the Sony A7x (the Sony nomenclature is really confusing, do they do it on purpose?). The question I have is this: how effective is focus peaking on the Sony A7x, speed of response, and if image magnification is required to be able to see the peak of focus how distracting is it, and how long does the image return to normal once the button is released?
Similar questions about the Z6 need to live elsewhere, so I’ll not mention here.

I think I am going to have to defer to other more experienced users of this camera till I get more experience. But I will say this about a couple of things. The cameras I have to compare it with are a Sony NEX 7, a Panasonic GX 7 and an Olympus OMD EM 5. All are good cameras in their own ways. Though now somewhat dated.

My first impression is that the Sony A7s is a distinct improvement over the Sony NEX in terms of most things and specifically the viewfinder which although rated as having the same pixel count is far more clear and demonstrably better in dim conditions. This surprised me pleasantly as I was worried that it might not be. I had read criticisms that the A7s viewfinder did not have high enough resolution compared to some rivals but it seems fine to me. Both the Panasonic and the Olympus have quite good finders but not so good as the Sony A7s both being from slightly earlier generations. I have been leaving the VF brightness on auto and this seems to work well when taking shots in very dim conditions using MF. I like this a lot as it matches the sensor performance in dim conditions.

However one deficit is that both the OMD and the Panasonic have pretty effective in-body image stabilization and I have never really had a gripe with them when using legacy lenses. . The Sony A7s does not - relying instead on stabilization built into lenses. However as mine is the first generation A7s this may have been rectified in later models (there is an A7s11 and an A7s111) This may be a bit of a problem for legacy lens users but it might also be counteracted by keeping the ISO high in darker situations and relying on this to keep the shutter speed up.

My first impression in relation to focus peaking is that the A7s has the best and possibly most reliable (certainly the brightest) focus peaking of those mentioned above (actually the first gen OMDI own does not have it the other two do). To date I have been using focus peaking set on high as I found in my initial trials that in some situations where there was not a lot of contrast, the A7s had some trouble displaying focus peaks at all. As do all cameras I have experienced to date in some conditions. But as always with focus peaking I find that especially when it is set on high and I check focus using focus magnification in the viewfinder it is not necessarily spot on. So far this has not been an issue as the finder is so clear and the magnified image allows me to see the point of maximum focus precisely and quite quickly (I set up a top of the camera button to activate magnification by moving my index finger a few millimeters from the shutter button to a dedicated button for the purpose). The magnification stays on when the button is pressed to activate it then returns instantly (and I mean very quickly) to normal view when the shutter button is next touched. I have experienced no problem here really and am not too worried about focus peaking being over sensitive and giving inaccurate indications as I suspect I will become more adept with experience, at judging when to turn it up to high setting and when I can leave it on medium or low. Obviously a high focus peaking setting in bright contrasty situations can give misleading readings, though when the light conditions are dim and flat a high setting may help considerably. It just means adjusting this as shooting conditions change

That is about all I think I can say and others can give more info based on their experiences. My impressions (and they are only impressions) are based on a few hours of use so far.

Its a very good camera I would say and seems suited to the use of legacy lenses. But another factor to consider is whether a later version of this camera might not be a better choice if you can spend the extra require. (I was trying to keep my camera spend down).

 

[jarski]

If your A7 is the ILCE-7 then it has a 24.3 MP sensor. To my knowledge, there was no A7 model with less than 24.3 MP.

S variant of the series is low light miracle, and has just 12mp.

(don't tell this to 10mp Leica M8 that tops at iso 640) 😱

 

[mcfingon]

I found the peaking on my A7S next to useless. It had too many false positives for me. I don’t know if it’s in better on the Z6, I haven’t owned one of those. My understanding is that that the Z Nikons are kinder to rangefinder lenses than the A7 series as the sensor cover glass is thinner, therefore edge aberrations aren’t exaggerated as much.
John Mc

 

[Larry H-L]

For most situations, the lowest focus-peaking setting seems to work best for me. Focus magnification is far better for critical focus. I have a custom button near the shutter release set for magnifying the EVF screen, it is quick and easy to dial in focus after some practice.

 

[peterm1]

I found the peaking on my A7S next to useless. It had too many false positives for me. I don’t know if it’s in better on the Z6, I haven’t owned one of those. My understanding is that that the Z Nikons are kinder to rangefinder lenses than the A7 series as the sensor cover glass is thinner, therefore edge aberrations aren’t exaggerated as much.
John Mc

Would this (referring to RF lens performance) be an issue more with wide angle rangefinder lenses due to the angle of incidence of the light rays coming off the rear element near the outer edge. Surely it is not such an issue with, say, 50mm lenses and above as they inherently have more perpendicular light rays. Or am I missing something that I had not thought of.

 

[maddoc]

Same experience here with the focus peaking, in the worst case it results in a color overladen EVF, in dim ambient light very distracting. I found the focus magnifier to be of much better use. Actually easier to nail focus with the Noctilux than with a Leica RF without magnifier.

I found the peaking on my A7S next to useless. It had too many false positives for me. I don’t know if it’s in better on the Z6, I haven’t owned one of those. My understanding is that that the Z Nikons are kinder to rangefinder lenses than the A7 series as the sensor cover glass is thinner, therefore edge aberrations aren’t exaggerated as much.
John Mc

 

[sebastel]

final word on menus (from my side).
i think, menus are overrated. you use 98% of their entries maximum once, that is when setting up the camera to your needs. later, you'll be able to find the few items you use regularly.

especially, when the camera offers a quick access menu, like the sony does.
so, while the sony menu system is ... not the nicest, it's really only a minor issue.

the main point i wanted to make is, not to get irritated by it. once the camera is set up, there is hardly a need to revisit the remoter areas of the menu. really.

cheers,
sebastian

 

[agfa100]

You made a great choice, I have been using a A7s for the past three years for all my older M lenses and all the other odd ball lenses I use. I have printed upto 13x19 without any issues but mostly only 9x13 just because I am cheap, 12 meg's is not a issue get over it.

Here's a link to a 35mm summicron shot wide open on the A7s this is a jpg right out of the camera.
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/wbill/DSC00078.jpg.html

These two are shot at 12800 with a Laowa 10-18 at 10mm f8.0 @ 1/30 all handheld.
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/wbill/_DSC0355a.jpg.html
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/wbill/_DSC0354a.jpg.html

The last shot is a robot we have that brings you food from restaurants. It was waiting for the light to change before it went across the street. This is in Fairfax City Va. just outside of Wash DC.

 

[Ricoh]

I think I am going to have to defer to other more experienced users of this camera till I get more experience. But I will say this about a couple of things. The cameras I have to compare it with are a Sony NEX 7, a Panasonic GX 7 and an Olympus OMD EM 5. All are good cameras in their own ways. Though now somewhat dated.

My first impression is that the Sony A7s is a distinct improvement over the Sony NEX in terms of most things and specifically the viewfinder which although rated as having the same pixel count is far more clear and demonstrably better in dim conditions. This surprised me pleasantly as I was worried that it might not be. I had read criticisms that the A7s viewfinder did not have high enough resolution compared to some rivals but it seems fine to me. Both the Panasonic and the Olympus have quite good finders but not so good as the Sony A7s both being from slightly earlier generations. I have been leaving the VF brightness on auto and this seems to work well when taking shots in very dim conditions using MF. I like this a lot as it matches the sensor performance in dim conditions.

However one deficit is that both the OMD and the Panasonic have pretty effective in-body image stabilization and I have never really had a gripe with them when using legacy lenses. . The Sony A7s does not - relying instead on stabilization built into lenses. However as mine is the first generation A7s this may have been rectified in later models (there is an A7s11 and an A7s111) This may be a bit of a problem for legacy lens users but it might also be counteracted by keeping the ISO high in darker situations and relying on this to keep the shutter speed up.

My first impression in relation to focus peaking is that the A7s has the best and possibly most reliable (certainly the brightest) focus peaking of those mentioned above (actually the first gen OMDI own does not have it the other two do). To date I have been using focus peaking set on high as I found in my initial trials that in some situations where there was not a lot of contrast, the A7s had some trouble displaying focus peaks at all. As do all cameras I have experienced to date in some conditions. But as always with focus peaking I find that especially when it is set on high and I check focus using focus magnification in the viewfinder it is not necessarily spot on. So far this has not been an issue as the finder is so clear and the magnified image allows me to see the point of maximum focus precisely and quite quickly (I set up a top of the camera button to activate magnification by moving my index finger a few millimeters from the shutter button to a dedicated button for the purpose). The magnification stays on when the button is pressed to activate it then returns instantly (and I mean very quickly) to normal view when the shutter button is next touched. I have experienced no problem here really and am not too worried about focus peaking being over sensitive and giving inaccurate indications as I suspect I will become more adept with experience, at judging when to turn it up to high setting and when I can leave it on medium or low. Obviously a high focus peaking setting in bright contrasty situations can give misleading readings, though when the light conditions are dim and flat a high setting may help considerably. It just means adjusting this as shooting conditions change

That is about all I think I can say and others can give more info based on their experiences. My impressions (and they are only impressions) are based on a few hours of use so far.

Its a very good camera I would say and seems suited to the use of legacy lenses. But another factor to consider is whether a later version of this camera might not be a better choice if you can spend the extra require. (I was trying to keep my camera spend down).

Thanks Peter, that’s a good honest appraisal after a brief marriage to the camera.

 

[Ricoh]

Would this (referring to RF lens performance) be an issue more with wide angle rangefinder lenses due to the angle of incidence of the light rays coming off the rear element near the outer edge. Surely it is not such an issue with, say, 50mm lenses and above as they inherently have more perpendicular light rays. Or am I missing something that I had not thought of.

There was a ‘discussion’ in a similar thread and I remember someone mentioning the Z6 is kinder to the wider M lens compared to the Sony A7x. One of the reasons, perhaps the main reason, is the difference in sensor stack thickness.
The choice appears to be a design parameter as an overall system response, combining sensor, stack thickness (and refractive index if the elements there in change, such as an air gap) and the native lens design. Sony and others will likely place legacy as a third order requirement.

 

[Michael Markey]

Congratulations .
I used the first version of the A7S for a few years with my M lenses.
I found that the Voitlander close focus adapter was by far the best for M lenses .
Best build and the helicoid allows to to focus the M lenses closer than you are able on an M body
I think Tom A had something to do with the design.

 

[mcfingon]

Would this (referring to RF lens performance) be an issue more with wide angle rangefinder lenses due to the angle of incidence of the light rays coming off the rear element near the outer edge. Surely it is not such an issue with, say, 50mm lenses and above as they inherently have more perpendicular light rays. Or am I missing something that I had not thought of.

Correct Peter. Generally, the wider the worse the effect. An exception was the 24/3.8 Elmar-M, which performed very nicely on the A7S.
John Mc

 

[Yokosuka Mike]

Congratulations .
I used the first version of the A7S for a few years with my M lenses.
I found that the Voitlander close focus adapter was by far the best for M lenses .
Best build and the helicoid allows to to focus the M lenses closer than you are able on an M body
I think Tom A had something to do with the design.

I'll second that! The Voigtlander VM/E Close Focus Adapter is the best!

All the best,
Mike

 

[Austintatious]

I recently took delivery of a brand new Sony A7II with kit lens from B&H for the same cost that a used camera sells for. Really happy with it. I'm looking at lenses for it now.

Originally Posted by maddoc View Post
I have mine now a little over 3 weeks and I have to say that I am positively surprised about general handling, manual focusing aids, the EVF quality and writing speed. I have tested the camera with a couple of my older Leica M-mount and L-mount adapters and got some nice shots. The most surprising lens however was a recent purchase of the 28mm f/2.0 FE from Sony. Very cheap, quick AF, and decent quality of the photos. For me it is the poor man's Leica Q. I also bought an E-mount F-mount adapter and want to use it to scan film with my 50/1.8 and some extension tubes.

Sony A7, FE 28 f/2.0

The 28mm f2.0 has a DXO score of 40. Great glass for the money I'd say.

 

[AlwaysOnAuto]

The Sony FE28 2.0 lens was the first native lens I got for my A7ii. It is an amazingly sharp lens. Great bang for the buck IMO.
Works well on the A7iii also.

 

[nikon_sam]

I found the peaking on my A7S next to useless. It had too many false positives for me. I don’t know if it’s in better on the Z6, I haven’t owned one of those. My understanding is that that the Z Nikons are kinder to rangefinder lenses than the A7 series as the sensor cover glass is thinner, therefore edge aberrations aren’t exaggerated as much.
John Mc

I use the focus peaking on my a6000 and find it works best with the lens wide open and I also magnify the image to check on critical focusing...
I've had mine almost three years and the Menu does get easier to use...

 

[madNbad]

Most of the time my A7II is on the copy stand for scanning but I do have a Zeiss 35 2.0 Loxia. The manual focus Loxia were designed mostly for video, the line of five lenses all have the same filter size and can be declicked easily. The lens also automatically engages the focus magnification when you first turn the ring.

 

[Forest_rain]

I have an LA-EA4 adapter for my A7 II. Highly recommended, it allows you to use old cheaper A-mount Minolta AF lenses on your E mount camera.

The quality of the Minolta lenses is on par with the newer and MUCH more expensive E-mount Sony lenses.

You do lose something like 1/3rd of a stop of light because of the translucent mirror, and it may be just a hair heavier than using the native lenses, but the size should be similar.

Minolta lenses have a slightly "warmer" tone to them which I like, and have the famed "Minolta colors". The lenses are little less "neutral" than the Sony lenses in my opinion.

The Minolta 50mm 1.7 is super cheap, as low as $30 while you can get a 1.4 (!) for $100.

Opens up a wide range to you for an affordable price if you buy 2+ Minolta lenses.